Welcome And The More Trap

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hey everybody, welcome to the HerdFit Podcast with Dr. Sam Reed and myself, Coach David Syrton. This podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition, and most importantly, mindset. All right, welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I'm here. I am David Syrton. I'm here with Coach Adam Ramsen, and we are going to talk about a very classic CrossFit topic, also a very classic American topic. And that just means overdoing it, overdoing it in everything. And we live in a world, we live in an era, live in a country, in an area in North Jersey where everything is about just being more. More is better. More, more, more, more. Whether it's food, whether it's money, whether it's parties, whether it's exercise and our weights and our reps. Um every time, every corner you look around, it's almost like someone's just trying to one up something that they either used to do or what someone else is now doing. And I think this applies to the CrossFitter as much as anything, is that, or people that are quote, addicted to fitness, is that we always feel like we have to do something more. And here at CrossFit Bison, we have a lot of and CrossFit in general, you have a master's population that it continues to grow. Like people are just getting older, right? And this is something that a lot of us struggle with is you know, you're you're trying to stay as fit as possible. You have a goal. We just talked about the bison benchmark last week. People just got done with high rocks. We have a lot of competitors at the gym. And it's hard not to imagine that you should do more to really achieve that goal. And I didn't ask Adam this prior to because I want to get like a spontaneous definition from him.

Defining Overtraining And Injury Risk

SPEAKER_01 1:48

What is the definition of overtraining?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I think the over uh definition of my definition of overtraining is um putting yourself in a position with your training where injury is not um it's it's not a percentage of whether you're gonna get injured because people can get injured at any time walking across the street. It's that is injury inevitable with the amount of volume that you're putting in towards your fitness, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

And it's funny how when I listen and research and read about people that are in the physical training space, not necessarily within CrossFit, I would actually say I hear this more outside of CrossFit than anything, is that they will always say a fitness program that leads to injury is not a good fitness program. And there's always that song in my head, I'm like, well, you if you do intense physical activity at some point, something is gonna go. And then we have to really kind of define, then we go into the weeds. What is an injury, right? Is a muscle strain that you're out for a few weeks, is that really a real injury, or is it something you need a surgery for? Right. But we know CrossFitters, Adam, that are banged up often, or maybe even always. And is overtraining the reason? Is it under recovering? Is it genetics? Um, but I also see this in professional sports, and there's just it's injuries are a lot more common than they used to be. And I think part of that is that people train 12 months a year now. They always feel like there's someone's getting one up on them. Why do you think people view more training as better? What what what is that? Uh is it is it addiction? Is it boredom? Is it uh disappointing and being disappointed in themselves? Why is overtraining such a rampant problem in CrossFit, but in general?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, I think the um it's one of the issues that people have with the whiteboard is that you can see what everybody's done. Um, and I think naturally you kind of put yourself into small groups of athletes that you feel you're on kind of the same level with. So that way you can look at their scores, see like, okay, how did they do in this workout? How should I be looking? Which is a great thing to do. Um, but you're also always gonna walk into the gym and there's gonna be somebody doing extra work, you know. Um you're gonna say to yourself, Well, we're right on the same level, and now that person's doing a little bit extra. Am I gonna fall down and all of a sudden now they're gonna be, you know, I know they look at my scores. Are they gonna be saying, Oh, what happened to Adam's scores? It's falling off a cliff and stuff like that. Um, if they have the time and the ability, you know, they're recovering better. Um, but again, it's all those factors that we talked about, right? What's your training age? You know, I think it's a lot of the people that we see that are always kind of like banged up, it's because they've been doing high-level competitive athletics for years and years and years. Whereas somebody that hasn't done much comes in, you know, or maybe they've just been a runner or do their own calisthenics thing, like their joints are able to, you know, take a lot more just because they haven't put that wear and tear of years of competitive sports on their bodies.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, I mean, they literally have more cartilage left. That's usually what a lot of what it comes down to is like they just it's um is everyone does have a shelf life. I think all athletes need to know that. And it's very easy for a pro athlete in the sports that we follow, right? Football, baseball, hockey, right, soccer, it's very easy to understand that at some point you're no longer gonna be on that level. Like, hey, I am no longer one of the top 1% of the 1% of the 1%. I can't, I can no longer make a career out of doing this. It's in my opinion, it's kind of easier to realize that. And you made your money, you left, you go do your thing. But with fitness, in a world where everyone's trying to be healthier and fitter, and some of it's competition, some of it's not. Some of it's just like, I just want to be healthy, I want to work hard, I want to grind. Um, there is it's really hard for people our age and and older, and even in some cases younger. Like, when is the time for you to really kind of take a step back and alter your training so that you can view it as longevity? Because the longer you do stay in sport, I'm not gonna say it definitely, but you're

The Whiteboard And Comparison Pressure

SPEAKER_01 6:20

much more likely to hit something that's not gonna be pleasant. And it's it's going to actually pull you away from it, you're not gonna walk away from it. And I think all of us want to go away from really intense stuff, whether it's competing or just intense work, we want to go on our own terms. You don't want a surgery or um a massive joint problem to be like, yeah, you're basically never gonna tie your shoes again, or you're never gonna be able to go hike with your kids. You can't, you know, run around with your kids or coach or anything like that. You nobody wants that, but I do think everyone wants to get as close as possible. And you you you that's not gonna come in thin air, like out of thin air. You're not gonna have a message come down, like, all right, hey, it's your time, you can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

So, what's your advice to someone that says, like, hey, Adam, I want to push. I still want to compete. I really want to see what I can do with, I want to see what I'm capable of. I love it, it's fun, it's a hobby. Um, but I would say it's like the Kelly Stirrett line. Every time you do something you shouldn't do, it's like cutting that one more thread from the rope, and eventually the rope won't work, it'll snap. What's your advice to that?

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, I mean, I I think it's just gotta be, you've got to be honest with yourself, you know. Um, we see a lot of professional athletes, especially there's a there's a larger trend I'm seeing of professional athletes stepping away earlier um and just saying, you know what, my body can't handle this anymore. I know before I get to that point, you know, I'm gonna walk away. And there's usually a negative connotation with that, right? All the fans say, Well, come on, you've got years left. Like, what are you doing? Um, and so it can be really difficult, and especially when you have somebody that's a CrossFit athlete or just fitness, you want to be able to do it for as long as humanly possible. Yeah, right. So it's a risk reward, right? If you want to up the intensity, I'm never gonna say don't do it, but you know, just know that when we're pushing the line there, the longer we push the line, um, and the longer we redline, the more you're saying, like you're just upping the chances you're gonna get into the car accident, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah, and that yeah, I mean that's a good way of putting it and to try to relate that to outside of fitness, right? Is if you were if you wanted to, you know, make more money, start it, have it new, start a new job, open up a business. Like there's pros and cons to everything. I do think that helps decision making, but also self-awareness with where you're at. Like if you were like, hey, I want to go make an extra X amount of dollars next year, I'm gonna start a business. Like, cool. Are you cool with working seven days a week? Are you cool with spending less time with your kids? Are you cool with not being there in the morning, not there at night, and coming home early from vacation because you have to do X, Y, Z? Um, that's something that like you in your head, you're like, all right, that doesn't seem like it's worth it to me. You'll gain in some areas, right? Like you put extra effort, you will get fitter, you might be more competitive, that might fill a void and you're gonna be really proud of it. But the other side of it is you might not even be able to cross fit in a couple years. You might not be able to ever do an overhead squat again. You might be one of those guys, right? You might be someone that walks away because you can't physically handle it anymore. And that that's a it's a tough thing. Like my mom always says, like you can't always live in fear that like something bad's gonna happen, right? But you also have to be realistic, and I think that is where a lot of CrossFitters that have an over-training problem is that they put a little too much self-worth into what their performance is, and even more dangerous, what other people might think about it. Because now you're going that now, this is no longer an internal thing, and that brings up a whole different set of issues. That if you're doing it for external validation, um, you're gonna lose hard at some point. But if it's for internal validation, hey, I like to work hard, I like that dopamine rush of accomplishing things, and this is where I want to put my thought, effort, energy. Again, it's not that it's wrong, but you should be aware that there is another side to it.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Now, oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

No, I was gonna ask, I was gonna ask you the next question. Expand on that.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, because you know, like you've said many times on this podcast, we have a gigantic pool of really fit masters athletes hitting every age throughout there, you know. So it's very easy to walk into the gym and every day and say, Oh, I can put in the same work as that person and do as much training, and they never got hurt, they're fine, they're killing it at 55, 60, 65 years old, you know. Um, but what you don't see are the people that you know did that and got hurt and now they can't CrossFit anymore. Yeah, you know, so it it's similar to the person they see on the news that's a hundred years just celebrated their 100th birthday. How'd you do it? Oh, poking uh smoking a pack of cigarettes a day and drinking uh two glasses of whiskey a night. Like those are the outliers. Yeah. And you could you follow that same path? Absolutely, you know, but there's also the other side of it where it could it could affect you earlier on than you want to.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I do hear that a lot. Actually, when I started next level to in 2017, I I actually got a little bit negative uh flack for it because you're like, oh, well, it's gonna create this feeling in the gym that they everyone has to do more work because those two people are getting better, right? And no, and whether it's a money issue, time issue, a lot of people it's just like you don't have the time to go to the gym and work out again. You just don't have it. And I I I kind of like dismissed it and merely it's just like whatever, but now I do get it, right? Like as you get busier and you wish you could put that more time into recovery too, or I wish I could get there half hour early and get my warm-up and maybe a little get an extra supplementary strength work in. But the one thing I've accepted, and it's helped me cope with that, is that life is not fair. Like there are certain people that can put it in and they won't get hurt, and it's not just because they move better or they recover or eat better. Um, we're all very individual. Like there are things you cannot handle physically. And I think in time, you know, we have a lot

Longevity Versus Redlining Every Week

SPEAKER_01 12:18

of CrossFitters that have been doing this for over 10 years. You you know, deep down, you know what you can handle, what you can. You know what's risky and what's not, yeah. Right? Whether it's how many times you go to the gym, how many times you're uh really pursuing high effort, that that red RPE 910, going all out, signing up for competitions and qualifiers. Um, but I think comparing what other people do to what you are doing is the wrong way to approach it. Um, you can use people as an example, but that example of whiskey and cigarettes and living to 100, um, I think those things you have to keep that out of your head. It's really you have to keep this internal and really be able to self-analyze uh what you're doing. What do you mean by use versus abuse?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yeah, so I think with anything, um, you know, we're using the gym to get thinner. And so the natural thought process would be well, the more I use it, the better it'll be. But as with anything, you know, once you get to a certain threshold, now you've crossed into abuse. You know, um, we talk about when technology was introduced for my students, you know, it became this great thing until we started putting them on screens all day long. Now they were abusing the technology, it hurt, it you know, affected their attention uh span. And we've seen research that you know, now screen time just moderation of that is the best approach. So I think when we're looking at anything, we have to look at it as moderation. And if you're gonna increase your load, don't do that all at once. Kind of generally work that in. Because I think oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

So if someone works out four days a week, you don't want them to go from four to six, and then also set six more sessions per week just because they're really ambitious, they have to really try. Hey, try it, try four days a week, try five days a week. Okay, now try five days a week, and one of those days can be a little bit of extra conditioning. Okay, and now you pass these tests, your body still feels good, you're still you know hydrated and sleeping well, and you don't have aches and pains. Okay, maybe you could try five days with two days of extra work, you know, morning and afternoon if you have the time. That's what you mean by really kind of easing into the extra work.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah, and or like rather than adding in a second high-intensity wad every day, you know, make that second session accessory work or just machine work or a light, you know, it could be as easy as adding in a walk right every day, you know, something that's not gonna beat you up, and it's gonna be on a personal level. Like, I know I could add in running, high volume running three times a week and be fine. But you ask me to add an extra squat day in, and all of a sudden my legs and knees are gonna be beat up.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yep, yep. Now, when when someone is injured or banged up, right, and at any given point in a gym that's as big as bison, you're gonna have you know at least a handful of people that are kind of dealing with something. Um, and when they when we talk about doing you know accessory work instead of workouts or and still trying to improve, by the way, like accessory work to this day still does not get enough attention for getting yourself better, right? Um, we have a we know someone right now that's recovering from a surgery and he's chomping at the bit. He can't wait to get back in the gym. Um, does it always need to be about like that classic show up and wad and get a good score? Or can I find ways to improve my big picture through accessory work? Or is it, hey, do extra workouts? Is it replacing movements? What's your suggestion for someone to avoid overtraining while they're banged up, which is amazing. That that's a huge thing. People are hurt and they're still overtraining because there is this thought that they can do more. They, if they do more, they're gonna improve, they're gonna get the blood flowing, they're gonna get the mental and emotional stimulus from training that it's gonna make them feel better. What's your suggestion to someone to avoid overtraining while they're dealing with either an injury or they're coming back from something?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. Uh with the intensity of the normal bison wad, it's very easy at the end of the workout to say, Oh, I put in some really good work. I'm sweating, I'm holding my breath, I'm dramatically on the floor, like I'm guilty of uh almost every day. You know, it's easy for me to say, okay, I know I got a good workout in because I'm so tired at the end of the workout. When you're doing strictly accessory work, you don't get that same feeling.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

So now you have to find another data point to be able to look back and say, okay, there's my improvement, there's how I'm increasing my work capacity and stuff like that. And whether that's just reps per minute, whether that's just unbroken reps on, say, like a pull-up or a Bulgarian split squat, the weight that you're using, all those things. You need to keep track of those things to get the improvement rather than just saying, oh, I'm dead tired on the floor, I'm obviously getting fitter.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah. I think we are all guilty of this to a point. And this is, but I've seen a lot of improvement with a lot of people in this in this regard over the past few years, is that how you feel the next day is also a part of your workout score from the previous day. So if you crushed a workout, but you're in shambles for, and we've all been there two, three, four days, right? Throw thrusters that we did on a Friday a few weeks ago. I was banged up for about four days after that. Um, is that that that's the mark of really not a good workout in some ways, right? And there's a time and place to really push and make yourself sore, and you got, you know, you you went for it, which is I I always admire that kind of effort, but that doesn't always mean it's you did a good job. Because if you can't work out for three or four days because you did a good workout, that is a hole in the fitness that actually prevents you from getting to your end goal. Like if you can't go to the gym for three days because you did a really well on a workout three,

Use Versus Abuse And Smart Progression

SPEAKER_01 18:20

four days ago and that left you sore, whether it's joint, muscle, whatever, um, that that's a hole in the fitness. And I think that's where the mature CrossFitter will view this as recovery is a part of my fitness. And that's like in my head all the time. If I can't recover from a session or from a two-day hard session, um, hey, take a day off, cool. But if I'm still banged up, I'm not doing well, that that's a significant hole. Recovery is never sexy, but I also think it's something that gets overlooked all the time. Sleep, hydration, food, alcohol intake, mobility work, accessory work. That if you can do accessory work, that's not fun. And you didn't, your watch didn't tell you that you worked hard today. You didn't burn a ton of calories, but you show up the next day and you can go hard and you feel good, that that's a good workout. That's a good session. So I'm trying what I'm trying to say with too many words right now is that it can't all be about today's workout, right? You know, what's like tomorrow?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, and the other thing there is that, you know, I think for a vast majority of CrossFitters, you know, what workouts do you really go after? It's your wheelhouse workouts, yeah, right. So if I see a wheelhouse workout on a Monday and I say, Oh, I'm gonna crush this one, and then all of a sudden I have to miss or I have to pull back from Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, where are my weak workouts? Yeah, you know, they have the weaknesses where I really should be pushing my intention and really focusing on those workouts, and now I can't do them because I crushed my uh my wheelhouse workout, but now I'm feeling the effects of that days after. That's only creating that bigger gap in between my strengths and my weaknesses.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

That's a great point because your wheelhouse workout, you're gonna have a hard time getting better at them. You just saw you're probably like if you've been cross-fitting 10 years and you have a wheelhouse workout and you do it and you go crush it and you beat everyone, you feel good about yourself, all that good stuff, you're probably didn't get that much fitter in that session, right? You and because you're really not gonna improve in things you're really good at already. But if the goal is truly to get fitter, to to become more fit, more able, right? The margin for improvement is there on the things you're not good at, right? You know, and and but it's hard because we view this is what makes overtraining this topic kind of sensitive to a lot of people, that a lot of people do it to feel good about themselves. They like to they love that feeling, almost have an addiction to the feeling of doing really well on a workout they're very good at, and it kind of takes them away from the actual goal of becoming a fitter version of yourself because the margin is so tiny on the stuff you're already good at, right? You know, but it it but if you have that intensity on these days where you're not good at it, I know it might not make you feel good in the moment, but if the true goal is to become fitter, those are where your wins are. That's where they exist, that's where you have them the you can grab them at that point, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

And yeah, as a personal anecdote, you know, I can remember um a year and a half, maybe two years ago, one time I tweaked my lower back, which still comes in and out to this day. Um, it was not the deadlift workout, right? I I wanted to go in, I wanted to deadlift heavy because I feel very confident in my deadlift, I feel strong with that. Um, it was the wall walks on the next day, which is my weakness. And now all of a sudden I'm putting myself in a bad position because my lower back is a little bit tired because I pushed on the deadlifts. And I'm not really focusing on my movement on the wall walks because I struggle with them. So I'm just trying to get through with it. And then you get that little tweak, and all of a sudden it becomes a problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

So I've been there several times myself.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And that's and that's overtraining for me. You know, I didn't add in any extra volume, right? But I said, right, I'm I want to kill this deadlift workout and then you know go on to the next and still hit my four or five days a week, right? And you know, came back.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

So if so if I if I'm at if I'm listening to you and be like, all right, so Adam, are you telling me not to show up on that deadlift day? Like, what's what's tangible advice for someone that says, like, hey, I need to work on my wall walks and they're on Tuesday, but I love deadlifts and they're Monday, but Monday might bang me up for Tuesday. Do you not go? Do you scale back intensity? Like, is there a mental approach? Is there something tangible or physical some people can do? Because again, they might show up to a gym on a Monday and they might have the coach that day be like, bro, you better crush this. You got to do this, you got to get rest for a minute. Um, and that's tough. Like, I do empathize for the for the athlete on a topic like this because you can be pulled in a few different directions. What's your what's your reply to that?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, I would tell somebody, you know, that if let's say it's a five by three deadlift and you're normally doing your single dropping it, right? Go a little bit lighter and concentrate on that descent motion.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

You know, really follow through, and that's gonna help you not only with um, you know, that weeks of work if you have those following days, but also when we do have touch and go reps in a in a deadlift workout, all of a sudden you're gonna be stronger at that motion because now you're concentrating on that descent, pulling back a little bit from the weight, um, not maybe getting that max rep or that max weight that you could have if you were allowed to do those singles, but being intentional about where you're trying to improve throughout. Because again, right, like that deadlift may only go up by five pounds, right? But if you can increase your wall walk capacity, now all of a sudden, if you have a workout with both of those, you're getting stronger in that workout no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yeah, and again, the march was the goal. I want to become fitter. Cool. Then you have to put more intensity on that second session, right? And yeah, in some cases, it's lift less weight. You know, you don't need to, if you're if you're trying to like maintain your ability on the deadlift, or you're honestly trying to protect the back so that you're not banged up the next couple of days, get away from the leaderboard. And I know at a competitive gym like bison, everyone struggles with it. Even the people that don't say they care, they care. Everyone cares a little bit. Um, that it that's where just again maturity comes into play. That like you it it's it doesn't matter as much as you think you do. Like these days where hey, I can crush that deadlift workout and it's gonna make me feel good, that's a very short-term win. And you're gonna have more of them down the road. And it really does kind of take an emotional, uh emotionally mature person to say, like, hey, I know I could do better on this. And yes, some people might see this, they might quote judge me on that. But if your true goal is to become fitter and be safer and be healthier, all this stuff, right? The decisions are pretty easy to make. Um, and I think they should be made before you get to the gym. Like you guys start thinking about this now,

Training While Banged Up

SPEAKER_01 25:12

when when this happens, like plan these things out in your head now so that when this does come up, because it will, it will come up. Um, you already have kind of like this this answer in your head. When it comes to competition prep, um, I'm partnering with Mike Warren in August, uh, the Vertruvian games. And it's funny that I was about to text him, like, hey, I'm not gonna start training like set seven extra times. Like, I'm not really gonna do a lot of specific training for this. Maybe some machine work because I feel safe with it. Um, maybe we can practice a workout or two on a Sunday. But as I'm typing that out, he goes, Let me know what else I can do after every single session, like five, six days a week. Because we know Mike, Mike loves to train, he's young, he's got capacity. Um, but it's funny how when someone signs up for a comp, we saw this with high rocks, we saw this with barbells and beers, we've seen this with open prep and quarterfinals and semifinals, right? Is that it's hard for a lot of athletes that compete to not just keep throwing stuff onto the wall and and just train as much as possible because they think that's the route. And in some ways, training extra is uh a good idea for competition prep, but it it requires a few things. And those few things have very little to do with what you're doing in the gym. It's your lifestyle, it's your recoverability, it's your awareness, and it's also a programming thing as well. Touch on the advice you want to give to people that are signed up for something that's in front of them two, three months out and what they should and should not do.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah. I mean, it if and I think the pitfall of when you sign up for a comp is if it's your first competition, you're saying, okay, I've been coming CrossFit consistently, and now I have to do four workouts in a seven-hour window, right? So all of a sudden you say, Okay, I have to up my capacity to be able to get these this work in multiple times. First thing I would tell somebody is that at most local competitions, they're not going to have those long 15, 20-minute workouts. You just can't schedule that. So if you're coming into bison and you're doing a lot of 15, 16, 18, 20-minute workouts that we do, if you're coming on Saturday and doing 32-minute AMRAPs, all of a sudden you're getting that same amount of volume that you'd be doing in the two or three workouts that you're going to do because most of them are eight or nine-minute workouts, maybe max 10. And then that floater workout, if you have that, is usually like a one to two minute max effort thing. Um, high rocks, people say, okay, I'm used to coming in for my class for an hour. Now I have to be consistently working out and exercising for over an hour, maybe even an hour and a half, right? So I have to be able to up that the threshold and the endurance that I have. So, what I would tell somebody is to be extremely intentional about ramping up that very slowly. Because usually you're gonna set up a sign up for a comp that's two or three months out. You know, it's not gonna be like the week before, and you say, Oh, I'm just gonna do this competition. Or at least you know that next year you're gonna be doing a high rocks wherever when it comes to New York. You know, now you have time to say, all right, let me just throw in a small little bit of accessory work two or three times a week, and then I'll gradually increase the amount of extra work that I'm doing as I push towards um the competition date.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah, the the concept of peaking at the right time is like that's the secret, right? Like, and uh professional CrossFitters that do this for a living, and people that have professional coaches that are paying coaches 400 bucks a month, and their life revolves around training. Um, they have this down pretty well. Uh, that they they do peak. And one thing I've shared with Mike about training over the next couple months is like, well, I'm gonna throw a few extra things at him that are very competition specific. And some of them are ski intervals, C2 bike intervals, like things that aren't really gonna beat you up. But I in these notes that I tell him, like, dude, this is not go get your best score. Like, that's not the point of it. You do a lot of this high intensity work on your day-to-day work, and that's a foundation across it. We know that. But some of this extra work, it's like, hey, we're gonna do this exact workout eight times between now and the end of August. This should be your slowest one.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And then next week we're gonna make it a little tougher. Next week a little tougher. And that's the and that's where you become very regimented if you want to compete at a high level. And it takes discipline in a lot of cases to not try as hard as you can. And when I had a coach, there were like, it took me three months to figure this out. He's like, I'm just used to be like, all right, I saw this workout, go red, get my best possible score. It's not wrong, but it's not the right way to do it. It's not efficient, it's not the safest way to do it because a part of competing uh is you have to stay on the floor. You have to not not get hurt. You can't take three weeks off, and you don't want to show up limping, right? You don't want to show up afraid to like really get underneath a barbell. And this can be applied to lifting, conditioning, skill work, is that there should be a ramp that you are walking up the entire time. It shouldn't just be like, hey, here's nine extra workouts. And trust me, Dallas and I used to do that all the time. Do a workout, rest 20 minutes, go as hard as you can. The value in that is yes, it can help build capacity. You can get good at uh doing things while tired. But again, it's that's not the only goal of training for a comp. The train goal of training a comp is to stay healthy. Yeah, that's number one for everyone. That is the goal. You stay healthy while training, even if you have to do less volume, you have to take more days off. The goal is to stay healthy. So if I had Adam, if I had Mike do a workout um after a random Thursday workout, and I said, Hey Mike, we're gonna practice burpees, bench press, and ski erg 963. That's the workout. Wait, wait, what? That's it, 963? Because what you can train with low volume is the speed. The the that really, hey, go in these competitions, you got to go learn how to go really fast. I don't want you to do a 2115-9. That's too much volume after a workout, but what you can practice is how fast can you move, how fast can you transition while keeping you fresh again for tomorrow to get some extra work in.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yeah. And even if, you know, as far as like the high rocks prep, because just this freshman of mine when um I signed up last year, you know, I worked in the movements that we don't normally do, um, yeah, one at a time, you know, without the running in between. But I kept telling myself, like, as I would finish with a sledge bush, okay, how do you feel right now? If I asked you to go out for a thousand meter run, like what intensity would I need to do? You know, would it be a jog

Wheelhouse Workouts And Hidden Weaknesses

SPEAKER_00 32:00

with walks in between? Or could I kind of just keep up my normal running pace? And you don't have to go out for that run. You could just kind of you know make a mental note of I was not ready to run today.

unknown 32:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

And maybe two weeks later, you're putting in those sled pushes, all of a sudden it feels a little bit better. Then you say, okay, let me try out a 200-meter run after this and gradually ramp that up as you're before uh getting competition day.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah. And again, that word ramp up, he just used it. I used it earlier. Like, I want everyone that's competing and you love training, and this is a big thing for you. That's got to be something that's in the back of your head. And hopefully you could talk about that with a coach that's programming for you. I mean, I'm more than willing to have that conversation with anyone because I love talking about, I know you do, Bobby would, like all Liz would, all of our coaches can have some really good input on what would it, what would uh how would ramping up help me, or how can I ramp up for something that's two months out? Now, when you sign up for something that's eight months out, it's a lot less stressful. But when you're like six weeks away, eight weeks away, you do feel a little bit of pressure. But again, the goal should be that you're staying on the floor.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

And that that should be more important than any of your weights, your paces, your reps, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah. Um I did the uh you know, I did the comp prep with uh per 908 with Elena, yeah. You know, and we immediately threw in full workouts, right? So a lot of times people would come to a Saturday workout. Um, Liz was gracious enough to come back at 1:30 on a on a Saturday, you know, open up the gym uh for people, and they were going right back into full 908 workouts, and people were tweaking things all of a sudden. They had to take Monday, Tuesday, I wouldn't see them on Thursday for their normal 615 class because they say, Oh, I'm beat up from Sunday. Well, then that means you're putting in too much. Yep. That you've got to be honest with yourself and just say, Okay, let's just practice our synchro overhead lunges. Yes. Let's not worry about the workout as a whole. Let's try to get on the same page with this. What's our burpee pace over the dumbbell? You know, especially if you have synchro movements in a in a partner competition, like that can be a focus of access, that could be your accessory work. Yeah. How are we on the same pace? Yeah, you know. Um, when Ashley and I did 908 years ago, like her toasted bar pace was just too fast for me.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

It was affecting how I was feeling on toaster bar because I would be beat up.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

She had to slow down her pace. And once we met that same pace, all of a sudden our our work capacity got larger.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah. That's a great way of putting it. It should be viewed as practicing, not training all the time.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Um, now, like, you know, we just got done with Rafi's mindfulness class uh yesterday. We both loved it. He did a great job. And, you know, can you I don't know if there's anything, I mean it's a quick turnaround, but is there anything that you can add into this episode about being mindful, not only what you're trying to do with your training, or it doesn't have to be competing, just like how much you're training, but really be cognizant of why you're doing what you're doing, when you're doing what you're doing. And was that when I just listened to Ralph yesterday, like I've been working with him for a while, and like admittedly, like I'm kind of touch and go on some of this stuff, but again, that's kind of what mindfulness is and training the ebbs and flow of life. Yep, is but when I listen to it, it it does. I hope a lot of people that were there got this out of that, that you really have to be mindful of why you're doing things and what you're thinking about while you're doing the extra. Do you really believe you need to do the extra session, or is it because of an external factor? And can you touch on any of some like the mindfulness behind overtraining and trying to avoid it to keep yourself happy, healthy, and and moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, I mean, it it's like we said, it's the ebbs and flows of everything. Um, you know, there are people that are going to just hit a good run and they're gonna be increasing their scores while your scores are decreasing. So being mindful is, you know, without bias and judgment, like Rafi said yesterday, of seeing that happen, but then realizing that, okay, I'm in this lull for whatever reason, you know, rather than saying I'm gonna add in seven workouts so I can keep pace with this person, I'm gonna realize that I will get into a better flow at some point and things will even out, you know. Um, and there are people that are gonna add in that extra uh competition prep, you know, and maybe you can't compare yourself to those people anymore just because maybe they have the extra time that you don't, all those external factors, you know. Um, so then that's a good thing to go back and look at your scores and retest against yourself, like we talked about last week. Yeah, you know, being able to use your own data to compare yourself to yourself two weeks ago, yeah, to see that progress that you're making. Because I guarantee it is happening.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah. I mean, use your own video too, like video workout and just kind of like break down some of your movement trades. And like again, the the whole like without bias and without judgment. And you know, I I think a lot of people they add over training to their life because of stress. I I do think that whether whether they're unhappy or stressed out about something, or they're stressed out about the fact that they're no longer performing the way they want to perform, or they don't look the way they want to look, or they think everyone else is progressing and they're not. But that's where I think though be mindful. If if those are really your reasons why you feel that you need to train, don't train more, don't overtrain because those things aren't true. There isn't anybody in our gym, there isn't anyone out there that's always getting better. There isn't anyone out there that's always healthy, right? They might have a perception or you kind of lose track of these three people while you go focus on those three people. Because at any given point in the gym, there's always someone crushing it. I mean, I if we had a coach's poll every week, we could probably come up with new a new person every two weeks. So man, this guy, this guy, this guy's on fire. And it's someone different. But this kind of feeds into the social media era that we live in. That if you go on and you start scrolling, there's always someone on vacation, right? There's always someone just like having a great time. They bought this, they bought this, and like, and then it makes you think, wow, like everyone is just having like at some point, everyone's on someone's on vacation. I'm just stuck here, I'm stuck where I'm at, where it's just not true. You just kind of looked at a glimpse of that person's day or that life or that stretch of the year, and they're doing well, yeah. But you don't pay attention to the nine months they're not, or the 10 months or 11 months because you're fixated on someone else. And I think that's something we could all be mindful of that it that's not

Competition Prep Without Burning Out

SPEAKER_01 38:48

you really have to look at it from an internal perspective, like your intention and attention, right? Of what Rafi was talking about yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah, and I think the attention piece is something that can help you out because we're always very attentive of the people who are doing well, right? But the same thing, if you put your attention to it, you're gonna notice people that haven't been in your same class for a couple of days, you know, or a couple weeks, right? And maybe they tweak something, maybe they had to pull back from training. We never see that. We just say, Oh, they haven't shown up. Okay, like you know, a lot of times I'll be like, I'll see somebody come and walk through the door that I haven't seen in a couple weeks. I've been like, oh my god, I didn't even realize that you hadn't been here for a couple weeks, you know, because we put so much attention on the people that are doing great, yeah, and we kind of get get lost in the weeds, the people that are just kind of showing up, or maybe had have had to take a step back.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yep. And yeah, the the last thing on the mindfulness that I would love to touch on with people that have overtraining problems or over-training tendencies is that you you there's a whole different scope to training than the physical side to this, that is going to make the physical side better. And I mean that. Like a huge intention for me personally of better mindfulness training is to make my physical side better. It's not for to make me cope with getting older and and being less fit and struggling with stuff I used to not be able to struggle with. Like, that's not the that's that's not what I'm doing here. It actually can try to make me, I am much more present with all the whys and the hows and the whens that impact all of that stuff. And I I but there's so much more to it than just throwing extra work in. And you know, when you're constantly in that fight or flight mode, at some point you might be superman or superwoman, it's gonna catch up to you. And you do want to avoid that. Now, to close this out, um, at the bottom of your outline, you have AI use for extra programming. And to me, I mean, this is another fascinating discussion we'll have at some point. Um, the use of AI and programming and coaching and a lot, I mean, the direction it's heading in with the speed at which it's heading in is is fascinating to watch and be a part of. Um, but where where does your head go with this? Because I think AI is a part of so many conversations now, and I do think it can be a part of this overtraining talk.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Yeah. Um, you know, it it's it's amazing the amount of information you can get through the use of AI, right? If you say, okay, printing out a six-week program to get better at strict pull-ups from, you know, now I can do two at a time to I want to be able to do ten at a time. It'll spit out exactly what you could be doing every day. Um, but we just have to be very careful that that computer program knows nothing about you and how you're feeling day to day. So it's going to give you a program that's going to increase your work capacity, but you have to be mindful of not just following that to the T because it could lead to you know overuse injury. Um, it doesn't know the workouts that you're going to be doing more than a week ahead of time. You know, um, the other factors, are you going out on the weekends? You know, does that affect how you feel Monday, Tuesday when you have to do all this extra work? Um, so you know, it's a great tool to use, but again, if you get into the I have to follow this, you know, as doctrine, it could turn into the abuse of AI, like we're seeing.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah, yeah, we see a lot of that. I mean, I'm a huge AI fan for it being an accessory, right? Like if I want to get better at back squats, um, this could be like my Bulgarian split squat that helps me get there. But I there's a lot more to it, but it's not the only thing you can do, it's not the only thing that's gonna give you answers. If anything, it's thought provoking and it can create conversations with people that can truly help you out that see you day to day. Um, and I would say so. The last thing I want to touch on, and then we can wrap this up. Um, as a coach, if you had a room full of coaches listening to this, what is some advice you could give them that are dealing with people that overtrain? And I would think in most crossfits, there are a handful at least, right? You have different size gyms, let's say 10 to 20% of your people overtrain. Um, this whole episode was giving suggestions to athletes like, hey, be mindful

Mindfulness Against Stress And Social Comparison

SPEAKER_01 43:10

of this, be careful about this. You know, more is not always better. What should I do when I'm injured? Am I abusing or using the gym, right? But from a coach, what's one thing we you can try to tell them to help the athletes that are either stubborn or they need the guidance? What is something a coach can be mindful of, they can look for and then actually implement into the conversations they have?

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Yeah. Um, you know, the old saying is you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, you know. Um, but that doesn't mean as coaches, we can just stop leading. You know, um, you're gonna get pushback on things, you know, you just have to be relentless. So just know that any conversation that you're having is meant for you trying to give your best advice to that athlete. Um, you know, some of them are gonna take it, some of them are gonna. Say, no, no, no, I can handle all this extra volume that I'm doing. You know, I've got to do it. You know, I'm used to it. I'm used to doing training two, three hours a day. Um, you know, but you just say, like, hey, I noticed you have been, you know, you hurt your foot the other day, or shoulders have been bothering you, or every time you come in, you're kind of like seeing something that you can scale because that X, Y, or Z is bothering you. Um, so maybe that's a signal to you to kind of take a step back, you know, be relentless, but you know, you got to let people make their own decisions. So you can't somebody from that.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah, I think being an example is good. I think that's the best thing a coach can do is don't tell people to not overtrain while you're doing too much yourself. And um, I just think I think one thing a coach can always do is just always like you said the word relentless, and like I'm it's kind of in that tier. It's just like, hey, keep talking to these people, ask them questions, right? I'm a big like ask, don't accuse, right? Because a lot in a lot of cases, even a coach that sees an athlete often, you'd really in a lot of times don't really know the answer. You can assume things, but that gets really dangerous sometimes because if you're wrong, there's no one really holding you accountable to these thoughts that you're having. Yeah, so I'm big on if you ask more questions without judgment, without bias, right? Don't put your spin on it. You can actually get them in real time to start really saying things out loud about their own training. Yep. And and maybe that, and that in a lot of cases, that's what an athlete needs. They don't always need to be told what to do, they need to like really kind of word vomit a little bit and like really like put their thoughts out there. And then a lot of times a coach can hear what they say, they can give a reply, give some feedback. And now the athlete, it kind of is a lot of this stuff is obvious. Like what a lot of train athletes that train over trained, it's pretty obvious. Yeah, you're doing too much and you're under recovering, you have an addiction to working out, and you're always chasing these short-term wins. But you don't, as a coach, always want to tell them that. You want them to get to say it. And I think asking them questions relentlessly, and in some cases, guys, this might take 88 conversations before they really realize it. And I think the coach's job is you got to be patient with some of this stuff because I think the overtraining issue is a lot deeper than I'm trying to burn extra calories. And if you I think the best coaches can actually get the athletes to say it themselves, right? That like, I gotta do something different. I I really and I need some help, you know, and like that that's when I think real progress within this area can be made. So, coaches be relentless, coaches ask questions, don't accuse, and try to be no bias, no judgment from that perspective because it goes deeper than I think a lot of us do realize.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Yeah, and in the end, we're trying to help. So it's just, you know, you're trying to get to that person as fit as possible, you know. So you're both coming at it with the same goal in mind, you know, and it's just you and the athlete have to find that middle ground to find the real reason why they might be overtraining. And once they identify that, then it's easy to kind of find a path to where you can both meet that

Coaching The Overtrainer And Closing

SPEAKER_00 47:06

mutual goal that we're both looking for, um, but in as safe a way as possible.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

Yeah. All right. Well, that does it. That was a really good conversation on overtraining, something that most people kind of dabble with at some point. You know, uh, some people, a lot of people in our world, they undertrain, but in this crossfit world, uh, they overtrain. And yes, I'd rather be on this side of it than the other. Um, to quote Allison, um uh who's now a doctor out at Stanford, I believe. She's uh I think that's where she's at right now, former member of Bison. She's like, I'd rather have a bum shoulder than a bad heart, but the goal is to have neither. And and I think that's a big component to this overtraining conversation is that you are trying to make yourself the healthiest version. So that was a good conversation. Thank you, Adam. And we'll see you guys next week. Thank you, everybody, for taking the time out of your day to listen to the Herd Fit podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.