Welcome And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Hey everybody, welcome to the Herd Fit Podcast with Dr. Sam Reed and myself, Coach David Siverson. This podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition, and most importantly, mindset. All right, welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I am Coach David Siverson. I don't have one, and I don't have two, and I don't have three. Sorry, I don't have one or two co-hosts. I gotta work on that. I have three co-hosts today, not people I'm interviewing. I don't even want to call them guests. They are all hosting this podcast with me today. Um, I would actually put this up there top five, maybe even top three, most important podcasts that we've ever done. Um, I have our head coach, Liz Tanzola. Um, I have a coach, owner, girl who worked out at Bison prior to bison being ever open. DT in the dark in a room we wrote out to Ash. Worst uh display of DT we've ever both done or seen. Ashley, and I have a one of my newer business partners, coach Sam Ree. Um,

Why The Member Survey Exists

SPEAKER_03 1:12

we are gonna go over the first ever CrossFit Bison survey results. And Sam, I want you to ask, touch on this, right? We brought this up at one of our meetings. We meet every month, and we said, you know, we're constantly to ad nausea talking about, hey, what can we do better? What can we do to make the place better for everyone, for coaches, for members, for us, right? For new people, for older people. Um, why do you think, from an owner perspective, why is it important for us to send out a survey to our members and give them an opportunity to show us, tell us what they want more of out of the gym?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

We have our own ideas of what we think how the gym is doing, how uh we need improvements on certain things or not, but we don't really know what the gym thinks. People come up and talk all the time, but obviously, not everyone feels the need to say something. So when you brought up the idea of a survey, it was the most obvious best idea to really solicit the feedback of everyone at the gym uh without fear of repercussion or you know, um being singled out, and and to really let us know how we can make the gym better.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

And now, Ashley, you you work in HR, you solve problems for a living. And I've I've had a front row seat at watching you grow your career. I drove you out to your interview at Vornado back when we were dating in Hoboken. That's that's how far back I I've watched you grow in that career and your perspective on just managing and solving problems and trying to blend feelings with reality. Because at the end of the day, that's what we have to do with these survey results. We have to take people's feelings and thoughts and actually filter them into what's realistic and what's not. When you saw some of these results, and we've had a lot of conversations about them, where does your head go just from a professional standpoint, but also someone that was at Bison before bison was a thing?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Well, first from like an HR perspective, right? Like a lot of companies don't love to do surveys because you get an answer and you're expected to do something with that, right? Like you can't just send out a survey and nothing changes. Um, so a lot of companies, yes, want to know, you know, where their pitfalls are, what they're doing, great, but that also comes with immense responsibility to actually make changes. Um, so I think the the interesting part for us in the small business, right, is that we want to know, like Sam said, we want to know what people are loving, what things can be changed, um, because we only know what we know. Um, so from our end, um, from like an HR, you know, perspective and seeing the business grow from day one, um, it's enlightening to see a lot of things. Um, you know, there are things that we can change and we will make changes to and we will improve on. Um, but there are things from a logistics standpoint, from a business standpoint that unfortunately just can't be changed. Um, so it's kind of like, you know, you want to please the people, you want to please the members because they are how we make business, you know, how we run a business is by them. Um, but at the same time, it is a business and we do have to treat it as such. So it's a very fine line between, you know, answering to ownership and answering to membership.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah, yeah, tough. And there's no there's no formula out there. And I've never even wanted to compare bison to a corporate business or Fortune 500. And it actually, a lot of advice we've gotten from people that live work in different realms and different businesses. Um, a lot of their rules, lessons, advice, it just doesn't even apply to something like this. So I do we do get to beat to our own drum, but there are things we can take from corporate HR and your own entrepreneur mindset and try to again blend them together, filter them. Now, Liz, what is the actual the primary goal from your perspective of bison is what? Like the goal of the staff is what you are in charge of the staff, they are the most important people in our gym, not the best people, but the most important ones. And when you kind of take our thoughts from ownership and you convey them to the coaches, but you also take your own views of this place, someone that has been around since the beginning as well. What is the primary goal of this place and how can a survey from members and all their thoughts and opinions? How can it help us get us there?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Um, I think it's to create a gym that everybody loves coming to. And we talked about this in our staff meeting that we had recently, just a 10 out of 10 experience, five stars, no matter who's coaching. I think it's also really important to remember that we have a large staff. And I think we kind of pride ourselves in having different and unique coaches, and not everybody teaches the same. Um, not everybody has the same scaling options, not everybody helps the same, not everybody offers the same kind of help in their own way, you know. And I think it's really important to know that um we're not all gonna be exactly the same. There's gonna be slight differences um for our team. I just want a team that wants to be involved in what we do here. Like they love it, they breathe it, they preach it. Um so I guess that would be my goal.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

That's that's a big part. And we're actually, we are gonna get, don't worry, everyone, we're still kind of introing what everything's this entire episode because we're gonna get specific, we're gonna get nitty, we're gonna get gritty, we're gonna get our hands dirty a little bit with everything. I do want everyone to know that the every single word from every single response was read multiple times. It wasn't one time through, it wasn't a breeze through. I personally ran through every read through everything twice, and I got something different out of it the second time I went through. And I know Sam, you read through everything. Liz, I can send you every single coaching feedback. One like that, these are taken very serious. And as we dive into some of the results, some of the takeaways,

Two Rules For Honest Feedback

SPEAKER_03 7:17

right? The trends, that's really what we were looking for, what I was personally looking for. I'm gonna create two rules for the four of us as we talk about this, but I'm also gonna create two rules for those that are listening, that are members of the gym, that contributed to the podcast, that have their own opinions. Um, for us, we cannot take things personal and we're not allowed to get defensive. And I only bring that up because every time I went into my laptop and I updated the next 10, you know, usually the 10 to 15 at a time. I made sure that was what I was looking at it from that lens. Don't take it personal, and I'm not gonna get defensive. Truth, yes, a lot of people don't know the truth about every little detail of the place. They shouldn't, they don't need to. They come one hour a day. We have 70 class, we're open 80 hours a week, right? But what they think is really important to me and and everyone that's on this episode. So I got away from that person's wrong, they don't know what they're talking about. From and I brought it to this is what someone thinks about the schedule, the facility, the programming, the coaching. And I just left it at that. And it really helped me get through it. So, no defensive and don't get personal. If you're listening and you contributed to the podcast, you have two rules as well. You it you have to understand this. It has never been, it currently is not. It will never be our job to make everyone happy. It's not even, it's not even in the scope. I'm not gonna say we don't care about making people happy. We do. That's a big reason why we we started the place. But to try to find example, let's keep it juvenile for now. If we said we have to make everyone happy with the playlist and the music at the gym, what do you think would happen? I mean, you literally want people that want death metal, gangster rap, and fish in the same class, right? I mean, that it's kind of a pointless endeavor to try and make everyone happy. So let's understand it's not our job and it never will be our job to do that. Part two, if you can remember back to fifth and sixth grade science class, you learn that for every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction. So everything that we implement that comes from an idea from a member, it probably has a reaction in the opposite direction. Again, let's come up with the we'll touch on the facility, but the two most frequent brought up comments about the facility one was you need showers. That that was the most common thing that came up to us from membership, even from people that said I would never use it, but you guys should have showers. Um, the second most frequently brought up issue with our facility is the parking. And so let's say we said, Hey, we're gonna add showers, we're gonna add four showers, and you guys, all you morning people could take your quick shower, you get on the train, get on the bus, you don't have to go home. Very efficient, schedule-wise. You want to know what would happen if we did that? Equal ox opposite reaction. You'd have more people coming to the morning, biggest class at the gym already, and you'd have even less people leaving after class, which makes the parking even worse. And I think that's a really good, easy understand, easy to understand example that if we add showers because people want it, um, the parking issues are probably going to be twice as bad in the morning, and your classes are gonna be even more full than they already are. So that's where when we take in thoughts from members, I promise you, they are stored away, even if we don't react to them right away. Meaning, if we go get a different facility, a different building two years from now, five years from now, that might be something we do right away. Like, hey, if we have enough space, let's put in showers. But I can tell you this right now, at our current location, it's never gonna happen. We will never put showers in at 265 Greenwood for a lot of different reasons. But it is something that we did take in. But let's understand there's gonna be a reaction

Coaching Needs More Initiative

SPEAKER_03 11:06

to it. Now, we're gonna dive right into the nitty-gritty here, and we're gonna start off with I think is probably the most important one. And this is where we're gonna have Liz kind of take over a little bit uh because she has a lot of good thoughts on it, she puts a lot of thought into it herself, uh, both with her own coaching and training our coaches. Um, and it has to do with the coaching feedback, and it was probably a tie between this and culture of what got the longest-winded responses, like people really dug in, like paragraphs, some of them of comments on it. And we're gonna spend most of the time talking about what we could do better. That was really the purpose. We didn't need pats on the back, and you guys are great. I mean, we love hearing that. Who doesn't? But really, it was what can we do to make this place better? So I'm gonna have Liz touch on something. Um, the most the the most uh common feedback we got about our coaching was that members want more unsolicited feedback, meaning they want coaches to take the initiative more than they currently are, and we've talked to the coaches about this, we're not throwing them under the bus. That I want more feedback, whether it's positive or negative, I want more help on form. And Liz, you've been coaching for so long. You probably have coached close to 10,000 classes at this point. Um, you've had good classes and bad classes. You've grown a lot as a coach. I love taking your classes. Um, what's something that you want a coach? What should what can a coach do to ensure they get to everyone in their class at some point?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I think it's important that they move around the room. I know we talked about that in our staff meeting, but um, you can't really give feedback on something you can't see. So you have to make sure you're seeing everyone, um, pursuing helping people, like actively looking for ways to make them better. Um, I like to simplify it with the saying that if you see something, say something. And it could be as little as, you know, their heels are coming off the ground. It could be as big as, you know, they're not getting under a bar correctly or it's not safe. But any little thing you can find is going to make somebody better.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Yeah, uh, that's absolutely the see say something, see something, say something does apply. And I think if every coach simplifies it, you can do that. And I do think I empathize, Sam. I empathize with a coach that is in the morning, right? You've done a lot of mornings, you've done Saturdays. You know, you have a class of 30 people. Sometimes on a route, like when we're really in the middle of the year, it's like a routine basis. You have 20 to 30 people in class. And when you know you're in there and you're saying, like, hey, I gotta try to get to everyone. Some people really want that attention, whether it's a pat on the back or a cue for their squat snatch. Um, can you look at just express from the coaching perspective like how challenging that is? It's not necessarily someone choosing not to give feedback, but it's sometimes their head is all over the place. And what is it like to be coaching uh at a gym that's got 20, 30 people?

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah. Yeah. I I would say, well, let me open first by just saying, um, and I want to point out credit to you and Liz that out of the responses, 80 almost 85% of the people gave the coaching scaling modification, helpful scaling modifications a five. So that was really um uh gratifying to see that people felt that they were getting the right, many people felt they were getting the right scaling options and modifications. Um, the morning is something that is uh uniquely challenging for for the coaches because, as you mentioned, there are easily 25 people in there. And

Big Classes And Attention Limits

SPEAKER_02 14:41

there have been some comments, and I and I fully understand it because I am a regular morning athlete now as well, that it's really hard to give individual attention when the classes are that big. There are logistic issues, you're, you know, as you know, you're trying to get people in and out, you're trying to assign lanes, you're trying to make sure that the um the flow of the class is on time. And so to be able to also give great feedback, not just requested feedback, but unsolicited feedback, as as the um survey has mentioned, is a supersized challenge. Now, that's not saying it can't be done, right? Like it it can and should and will be done based on what we got. And we I definitely appreciate the fact that people said this is something that needs attention. Yeah, and as Liz said, she's talked to the coaches about how we could do better in terms of doing that. So um, I have a couple thoughts about it on a personal level. I like you said, I don't want to be, I don't want to get all defensive because I have been that coach and being like, Well, what do you expect? I mean, I can't like people are just a mess, like nobody's listening, nobody's doing jack in the class, they're all talking to each other, they can't, they're not even listening to you. So, why would they want feedback from you if you if they're not even listening to you when you are trying to give instructions? So, but instead of being all argumentative and pushing back, like you said, I really took all of these comments to heart. And I will say, uh, first of all, um, let me put a little bit, not a lot, just a little bit on the athletes. If you really care about your movements and how you're doing, I would like to see you video yourself. Night like all the athletes I know who are really good at or not good, but diligent about self-improvement, are videoing themselves. And and if I see that, I feel more comfortable as a coach going to them and saying, you're really trying to work on your technique, and let me also help you on your technique. There are also a number of athletes, and I would say they are the silent, I want to say majority, but big part of them don't want uh feedback and they don't want unsolicited feedback. They have been coming to the gym for 10 years, and if you told them to squat lower on the wall balls, they would give you not one middle finger, but two middle fingers. And I've been on that other end, okay. So, um, so the second thing is if you are somebody who uh note like says this, don't don't be pissed off if somebody says, Hey, you're not squatting deep enough, because I have literally seen coaches say that, and someone says, No, I am, I'm squatting deep enough. Well, okay, so what is a coach supposed to do? And I have been that athlete too. I I said that in the coaches' meeting. I said, Dan Coda came to me on my toes to bar and said, You need to use your lats more. And I said, Dan, my shoulder is hurting. I am specific. I'm specific, not I'm not using my lats because of that. And he's like, Oh, oh, I'm sorry. So, which way is it supposed to be for coaches? That being said, I do agree. We could, and I think you and Dave Dave, and I don't know if you're going to talk about this, talked about how it's more about individual attention, and and I think that that's that's key individual attention.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Yeah, I mean, though, and this is again, I should maybe have done a better job at the opening of the episode. Like, this is what I want the conversation to be because I think you know, if you really do care about the plays from an athlete perspective, member perspective, or owner coach perspective, whatever. I mean, we're all the same in regards to this conversation. You have to listen. You know, like we gave everyone the opportunity in the survey to talk. Now you have to listen. You know, we just listened to a hundred, I think it was 112 responses, and some of them were very long. I didn't talk during them, I just listened. Now it's if you filled these out and you want, you know, some feedback on what you offered to us, you're gonna have to listen. And that's a big part of coaching that many people a comment got brought up that how could literally it said, How could you let someone during open gym lift with really bad form and not say anything about it? Okay. What that athlete probably does not know is that we have probably given that athlete cues dozens of times. And we're adults, these aren't nine-year-olds, where it's like they don't have the brain capacity yet to really take in information. Um, you're an adult that bison. If you've been given the same cue 14 times and you're still chicken winging every single time you do a muscle up, that's on you. And we're allowed to say that. You know, we're not going to come grab someone by the waist and say you're not allowed to jump back up on the rig until you stop chicken winging. And that is where the perspective of someone offering feedback about what we're doing as coaches, it means something, but it never means everything. But we are more than willing to take it in and look inward and say, All right, did we really uh help that person enough that's been chicken winging for four years? Have you really ever taken that person aside and said you're gonna hurt your shoulder at some point? Um, Ash, you've seen that this is a comment that if you get offended easily, this is gonna sting. Um, we got a comment comment that said our coaching was way better in the past. And that that is something that I don't agree with, but it's okay because it doesn't matter if I agree with it or not. It's literally just what someone thinks. Um, I think our coaching is elite at bison, and I'll and I will go to that with my grave to my grave. But was it easier to coach eight years ago than it is now? And I want to tell me why, why or why not?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Uh yeah, I think it was. Um, first, I think we had smaller classes, right? We didn't have classes of 30 like we have in the mornings. Um, so you kind of got that personal, like one-on-one a little bit. Um, I still remember when we back when we had an 815 class. Um, and sometimes me and Frank Nugent hanging out, um, doing the workout, uh, a lot easier to coach and get to everyone and give them specific cues um when it's a smaller class. Two, kind of like you said, like with Sam, like having a shoulder injury, when you have a smaller group, right? And the gym itself as a whole is smaller, you know those small things that are going on in people's lives a little bit more. So you could be like, oh yeah, I remember last week Sam had talked to me about this, and I know he's going through a shoulder thing. So maybe I wouldn't say that to him today. Um, but when you've got, you know, 300 members at a gym and you know, you're learning all of this, and you know, coaches are are seeing. so many people every day. Um, it does get a little bit more difficult. Um, but I think, you know, we've talked to co our Liz did a great job at our coaches meeting, um, you know, speaking to our coaches about, you know, listening to the coaches or to the athletes and and really making sure that that we can try to see all of those things, hear all of those things from athletes. Um, and also I think what people want more is not the overall, like, good job, guys, like keep going, like this. They want like, hey, Liz, great lockout. Hey Sam, like great kip there, like Dave, like a little bit lower on that squat, but you're doing good. You know what I mean? Like specific to that person instead of the overall, you know, great job to everybody. Um, but yeah, a lot has changed, you know, in the gym since we've been open. And I think we're doing a great job. I think the other hard part too is we usually promote from within, right? So we have athletes who have been with us for a really long time and are still trying to find that line between I used to be just an athlete here to now I'm an athlete and I'm a coach. So I'm now coaching these people that I have been working out with for a really long time. And some of them have been doing CrossFit a lot longer than me, right? A lot of our coaching in the very beginning, we were coaching people who had just started CrossFit. So we were kind of like the Mecca of you know coaches because they didn't know any better. Now you've got people who are coaching who have been doing CrossFit maybe even a little bit less than some of the athletes that they're coaching. So it is kind of like that learning curve. But I think our coaches do an awesome job. I think they spend a lot of time um you know coming up with new things, new ways to interact with everyone, new ways to stretch and do workouts.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

But again a lot has changed and people need to realize that I want to I want to piggyback on what Ash said because a lot of it is about attention and I know Liz has really emphasized paying attention because no one based on the survey is happy there is a this is a quote from one of the two responses. One was there's a notable imbalance in attention it seems like the majority of coaching and feedback is directed toward the athletes who compete and then there's another uh response that says I think the coaches focus a lot on the more casual or more inexperienced gym goers. Uh I haven't seen a lot of coaching so it I think the message is not you guys are all wrong. It's people all want attention regardless. And

Coaching Consistency Without Losing Personality

SPEAKER_02 24:44

as coaches if people don't feel like they're receiving that attention then we we can and should do a better job looking at every individual whether it's five or 25 that um that we can do a better job with that.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah I agree. In regard to coaching what it used to be and what it is now um I would take our coaching now over what it was eight years ago um without hesitation. The biggest difference to me is not the quality of coaching now versus eight years ago. The biggest the bigger difference is that you now have dozens maybe even hundreds of members that have been crossfitting for over five years some of them over a lot of them over 10 years. And with that they know a lot about crossfit they're no longer being taught basics on how air squats and thrusters they're kind of like leveling up in terms of what they understand. They know a lot themselves they used to some of these guys used to coach we have people members in our gym that coach for years they know a lot a lot about CrossFit and when you are coaching someone that knows a lot maybe even as much as you that's that can be tough to really confidently coach that person. And we have some newer coaches on our staff that only have maybe what a hundred to two hundred classes under their belt and it takes time for a coach to develop that confidence that no matter what if Rich Fronin comes to my gym I can coach him. I can give him something but that doesn't happen by the snap of a finger you've been coaching for a long time there aren't many people in the gym that have been CrossFitting more than you but there are people you coach that know a lot about CrossFit do you struggle with that at this point still as a coach that like hey do I really can I really coach this person I think I view it like I'm their eyes.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Like when you're working out like Sam said having a camera on you and then you go back and watch it if every single person did that there would be a couple people that are very surprised that they don't have a squat or their pushups aren't you know real or you know their snaps their snatches are a little eh or you know they would be surprised how they move because when you get tired movement changes. So it doesn't matter who you are I think the way you start a workout is definitely not the way you end a workout for anybody. And I think we just need to be humble about that and even sit-ups get sloppy right they start really good we're sitting nice and tall and it's like then the person next to you you're racing them and then all of a sudden the movement changes and I think that's where a coach can or at least where I view it as I could jump in and say you know clean it up clean it up move clean or just give reminders or heels down you know I struggle with the weight you're tired your arms are tired your legs are tired you just did an 800 meter run now you're squat cleaning things start to fall apart. So as a coach I you just view it as you know you are looking for the things that they should be doing. Yeah and while they're focused on the workout you can be the reminder. So I think that helps you coach you know an athlete that's been here for two days an athlete that's been here for six years an athlete that knows a lot or doesn't yeah that's good I like that way you're the eyes of the athlete that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Now this came up I think I have six times this came up that the coaching is inconsistent at bison and again that's going to happen with the levels of experience that we have you'd have inconsistency in any any walk of life any sports team any business for people that have been there for 10 years first two years it's different and we don't make coaches follow a certain warm-up um yes I do think some coaches put a lot more thought into their warmups than others I don't want to use the term better though I I really don't I just think some put more time into it than others I would agree with that comment which we have heard but I like I think you like this as well is that coaches have their own kind of personality their ability to put their personality into that class some of it is music some of it is how they approach the whiteboard talk I mean Keith's Keys Dan Coda how that like their personality shows up at the whiteboard and we want that imagine we said you have to talk about the workout like this and then you have to do this and you have to comb your hair to the side like this and you have to tuck in your shirt like this some people would love that structure corporate we're not corporate we have zero desire to be corporate so how do you from from the head coach perspective how do we preserve like these individual personalities and these coaching styles but also keeping the expectation that you have of coaches to be consistent with the actual coaching part of it and being reliable to members because our coaching schedule is spread out all over the place if you come in the morning you have a different morning coach every day. If you come at night you have a different night coach every single day. And I like that I think that's the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

However there needs to be some sort of reliability from the members perspective can you touch on that so I do there is a standard that I think we all expect like I do expect coaches to talk about scaling at the whiteboard um they could also do it in the warm up they could also do it individually. So I think it's important to remember that they all have their different unique ways and they can kind of lean into that but I think there is a standard that it needs to be said or talked about. Now how they go about it I think is up to them. So that keeps it like you know they have to talk about it at some point they know their direction but it also frees them up to be themselves and do it how they they would like to. So I think they're across the board that's there. Like we do expect them to be warmed up. We do expect the workouts to start on time and end 10 minutes before like we we have an expectation. I think we let them kind of decide hey today's like a mobility day with what they're doing or today is like they need to breathe a little heavier or you know they need an aggressive warm-up or I think we kind of let them be individual there. Yeah I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Some people like to stretch more than others.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Absolutely yeah do you so I I think we got this comment that there are certain coaches that they just their automatic go to is go run 400 meters. Another coach is like that's their warm-up right um I don't think it's a bad thing but if it's your go-to I think that's a bad thing. If it that's the automatic hey I'm just gonna do that every time bad thing. The occasional that's what you're gonna do first absolutely and usually the people that don't like that it hurts when they run initially like they need 10 minutes but I also want to question your functional fitness if you need a 10 minute warm up to go jog 400 meters that's a problem and I'll raise my hand I hate when a coach does air squats right away because I'm like I just want to stretch out my quads I'm tight I don't I'm I'm bad at maintaining that that's why I don't like it. But air squats are a great freaking warm up I just don't like it. Running is a great way to warm yourself up and if you have an issue with it right away go scale it or fix the problem that creates that. Again take some ownership of that um if you're functionally fit you should be able to go run right everyone should be get out of their chair and go run 400 meters right now without a warm up if you can't you have a problem and that I think that's a part of this whole warm-up talk.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Sam we've done an episode on the perfect warm-up which doesn't exist all right but we do have some parameters for that um you're older than us and I want what but you again you you are someone that you have specific things you like to do warm up you had very specific ways of warming up people I liked some of them I didn't like some of them but again it doesn't matter what I like you're doing it for the gym what you think is best what is your approach to a coach's approach and their personality in a warm-up like it where where should you go from an owner perspective in terms of sharing an opinion on what you think a coach's warm up should be uh you are a hundred percent right there's such a variety in terms of the coaches and their styles and I know some people take to it and some people don't like you said I I have my own preferences I think what Liz said and what you said hit the nail on the head. The first thing is are they doing all the logistics and the flow that is mina at minimum necessary to to to coach and I would say every single one of our coaches generally does that the second part is coaching is two it's two parts it's talent and it's preparation.

Warmups Preparation And Athlete Buy In

SPEAKER_02 33:29

So we all have different levels of talent for example Keith as his as he's been going he's a better coach than I was and he's only coached maybe like half as long or a third as long as I have and he he has a lot of talent for it like there's no doubt like it's just like anything else like he lends himself to it very well. But at minimum even if I don't have the talent I need to put the preparation in I need to think about the class I need to think about the stimulus I need to think about the programming I need to think about what I'm doing. And I I I would at least try to put the preparation in and I think the emphasis is if coaches are not putting in that preparation and I know Liz, I've talked to Liz the the way she preps is like so thorough and so all of those things have to come into play. What I think the survey points out to me is if we have coaches that are not prepping appropriately regardless of the talent like I said it took me a while to warm up to Bobby love Bobby. You know he's a superstar Dan has found his voice and I love taking his classes. So but um regardless of whether I like that warm-up or not I'm an old guy I don't I don't run well I don't do a lot of different things well I I kind of sandbag some of the warmups not going to lie but until until the workout happens. But um but if I know a coach has really thought about that warm-up and has really worked on it then I trust and respect what he or she is doing for that class. And and to me the survey is pretty unrelenting like make sure our our coaches are prepped and they've put time into the class.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

Yeah yeah um so the last thing I'll do in regard to coaching um the last thing I'll do in regard to coaching is I just want to again I want every member to know that they were heard they were seen I think that's you know we we talked about this earlier everyone wants attention um and that's not a bad thing that's not a knock I we want everyone to know that they were their comments were heard and seen and I'm just gonna run through um some of the the positives real quick and you know if it I'm just gonna go one by one if you guys have anything to add to I'm just gonna list them just so we don't take too much time here. And if there's anything that you really want to add on top of that and then I'll go through some of the negative comments not negative just like hey what could we do better? And then I'll give you guys the the opportunity there too. So as Sam said earlier the overwhelming majority was they were very happy with our coaching like literally over 90%. And um every even the people that were very happy they like to give a little like hey I'd like a little bit more mobility post workout or um hey I would like a little bit more guidance from a coach after a class what can I do on my own to get better at Toes Bar. So though you know those aren't negative comments it's just what could we get more out of so some of the positive stuff here um was that um every every coach seems overly thoughtful in their approach um they always love to help others modify every coach is helpful and mindful when it comes to scaling and injury needs which is a big deal to us you know we know that at some point people are going to get nicked up here and there and it's it's really important that people do that. The coach goes through everything at the whiteboard in a really time and efficient manner. It's the most professional coaching staff I've ever seen and I've been a member of four different gyms. They're always on time which is a big deal for people who are on a tight schedule. Coaches are always monitoring um this came from someone where they the coach used to leave the room after they warmed up like once the workout started um I can feel Ashley's head nodding right now. All coaches give great suggestions on our weights and it's really hard to do that and they appreciate that that a coach can give good guidance on what weight to use in workouts. They call out bad form almost immediately and let's see the last couple here uh they love the detail that's a top um to help people understand so they don't have to ask questions at the whiteboard that was in regards to the whiteboard they go through it and there's no questions after um and the the warm ups are excellent which is ironic right and this is it's good to see it's good for everyone to hear that you know there there's two sides to every coin here. You hate the warm-ups they think they need to be better other people think that they're excellent um I'm big on your warm up you'll get out what you put into your warm up um now anything to Liz anything in there that kind of caught your attention that just makes you smile inside that's like hey that's what we're trying to do. I'm happy about this like or are those kind of things that you kind of already know when you want to move on to the next I love the comment about the whiteboard um I think they do do a really good job.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

And I think because they take the extra minute or two um to really explain scales and give you options of what to do for the day I think it really helps um new people to even you know a couple years in try to find something different a different kind of scale to add to their workout. So I that's one of the ones my favorite comments was about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Yeah. I mean and Ashley and in regards to that Ashley you you know we laughed about this somewhat recently that in every workout that's on our app, there's something right at the top it says notes under the workout, under the date. And in the notes there's literally an explanation about the stimulus of the workout the goals of the workout and I guess I have done a bad job letting everyone know that in every single bison workout you can read about that workout and give you guidance prior to showing up and a few people on our staff just found that out so touch on that or anything else that kind of caught your attention in the in the positive remarks.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Yeah I just found that out sorry everyone um it's very helpful right because a lot of times you know when you coach you have athletes that come up to you and they're like I don't understand what's the stimulus of this and what's that and like well yes I may have my idea like we all know like you know people laugh like and ask like does Dave sit in like a cave and like come up with these like workouts and like ha ha ha and I was like there's a method to the madness right so I think those notes now that I know that they're there um are great to use um but I really do think that we've done a great job you know and Liz has done a great job at choosing our athletes and I think one of the things that they said in the uh survey is that like you can tell that our coaches care. Um that they want to be there that they want to coach um and they want to be helpful at the end of the day like that's what you know we're there to keep you guys safe keep you guys healthy and that we care um and that's been a huge a huge thing and it's nice to to hear that feedback um that people have such positive things to say about our coaching because at the end of the day you know that's what it is and the coaches yeah yeah and and Sam anything from that positive side that really kind of makes you smile nod your head no I just I'm so glad that Ash could finally find out what your program that you spent so much time writing.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Seriously seriously all right uh so for the what can we do better stuff just again I'm just gonna list through uh things that came up more than once or or a couple of comments that really stood out um we talked about the feedback we uh they talked about the class sizes um coaches spending too much time on newbies and not enough on seasoned veterans um spending too much time with one individual in a class um tell us what we can do on our own and give us more guidance on what I can do to level up um and that can be with anything lifting cardio gymnastics especially the skill stuff coaches take too long to write the names on the zone board and also on the the whiteboard which can't argue against that someone could touch on that if you want um when I have to scale the workouts it seems like I don't get enough attention like you know people that are if I have a shoulder problem and we're snatching they do cleans instead coach kind of ignores them and giving the cues in regard to that um only the top athletes are getting enough uh are getting the attention from the coaches um only the new athletes are getting attention from the coach I guess it's all about perspective um we again we brought the feedback I want to be coached harder um I don't want a bunch of compliments I want to be told what I'm doing wrong every day um let's see warm-up lack consistency we're there more post workout stretching and recovery suggestions um teach us post workout um and suggest what we can do on our own and more skill work can be implemented into a warm-up um so not necessarily part one part two but maybe help us develop skills which can also warm us up for whatever we're doing and this one got my attention because this came up uh multiple times warm-ups have become way too talkative and less about warming up and that was geared at at members meaning it's it's not people are not locked in in 10 15 minutes leading up to the workout they're too busy chatting with each other and it throws off the the quality of the warm up so you know I can touch on a couple of those but Liz do you have anything there that kind of you know not stings you in your heart again because this is not a negative thing. It's like hey yeah we'll take some constructive feedback.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

I do I do agree with the um not being dialed in for warm ups and like yes there's like you said another side of everything that you have to look at people come in late they have you know the kids screaming in the car they're you're giving them an extra five minutes before they walk in um there's a lot going on but I do feel like sometimes you know you start warming up and you'll see somebody disappear. They don't feel like warming up today. They don't feel like stretching they don't feel you know they'll go to the bathroom you know they'll go to the car to get something. So they're they don't give it a hundred percent when they're warming up and I think that's something that could change on the other end of things too just taking the warm up more seriously their workouts would be better. But I do see that I do notice that I'm not sure how to like 100% control that necessarily like I don't sometimes I think it's hard to be like everybody be quiet everyone has to listen everyone has to warm up. I do like that people talk to each other. We did talk about that with zoning boards like you know making different kind of conversation and stuff but um I do I do agree With that, I'm not exactly sure the answer of what to do about it, but yeah, yes, good.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Um, Sam, anything in there that kind of gets your attention uh more than others?

SPEAKER_02 44:11

No, I I I feel like when you were listing them all off, you and Liz discussed many of them and actually addressed a lot of it with the in our coaches' meetings, and yeah, and I feel like if athletes who heard those comments have feel like they ring true, trust me, many of those were addressed very specifically with the coaches, and I think you'll see some improvements in that regard. Yeah, and Ashley, anything?

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Um, I just think like kind of what you said, per it's all perspective, right? Like you've got one side where you've got people are saying like only the newer athletes get attention, and then you've got the other side where you say only the good athletes are getting attention. So I just it's you know all within perspective um of who's in the class, who's coaching, um, and personally how you feel. Um, I don't think that there's a bias by any means um from any of our coaches. Like I said, they want to make everybody um better, but it is something to be to be mindful of um at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Yeah. All

Programming Goals And Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_03 45:15

right. Well, we're 45 minutes in and we've just done one part of it. This will be our longest podcast ever. And I think I am gonna try to actually, I've never done this before. I'm gonna try to make the chapters or the timestamps um in YouTube and Spotify for those that want to just kind of listen to sections because now we're gonna move on to an entirely new section of this. And um, I I want to get like the serious stuff done first, and then we can throw in some of the not so serious schedule facility in at the end because I am gonna try to keep this under two hours. So I am gonna move on to programming, and I actually can probably start talking more about the programming in future podcasts and not spend too much time on it, but it is something that's very interesting. That at the end of the day, guys, that's why you come to I know a lot of you come for community and friends, but you you come to work out and then your friends are there and you blow your relationships blossom from there. But to me, the programming is is a vital component to the gym. And I have been programming since the beginning. And right now, to be blunt with you, I don't have any intention of giving that up unless there's a revolt in our ownership and coaching staff and they don't want me to do it anymore. And then I would, but I would listen to it. With that said, I hear it all with programming. I I genuinely do, and I love to talk about it to the point where I would annoy you how much I like to talk about it if we got to a one-on-one conversation. Um, and I would say this in regard to our programming, my my goal is is actually pretty simple. Could talk a long time about it, but the goal is this I want to make you as fit as possible, as efficiently as possible, as safe as possible. Meaning, I'm not here to just help you check a box that you worked out. I want to make you fitter than you are now or get you closer to what your goal is with via programming. Coaching's a part of it, your your intentions, your lifestyle outside the gym. But when it comes to programming, that's the goal. Now, efficiently as possible, meaning we really only have about 50 minutes of class time to get there. Um, four to five days per week. Some of you guys are six, but generally the high volume people, it's four or five days a week. Most people, it's three or four days per week. Okay, so again, you're really talking about three to four hours per week that we have to get you there to that goal and as safely as possible. There's a lot of things we could program, loads and gymnastics and movements that they wouldn't be the safest. You have to blend all that together and create a program that's not just for you, it's for the whole gym. And before I get into some of the more specific stuff, I'm gonna run through what I got from members in terms of what they want more in programming, and just try to look at it from a lens other than your own.

Everyone Wants Opposite Programming

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Here we go. Ready? More snatch, longer workouts, more clean and jerk, less gymnastics, more gymnastics, more deadlift, more mobility, more part one, more part two, more cleans, more mandated squat cleans and squat snatches, less squat snatches and squat cleans, bench press, bodybuilding, more curls. Literally, got that, more core work, more finishers, more ring muscle ups, more odd objects, rope climbs, kettlebell work, gymnastics accessory, strength days, especially overhead, more gymnastics again, single leg lifts, more squatting, more pistols, thrusters, ring dips, kipping handstand push-ups, strict handstand push-ups, handstand walks, overhead squats, no long workouts, jump rope. Okay. So when you get you get all of that, and you say, like, okay, there's about 40 things we got to add to the programming, okay. Um I think that means it's a balanced program. And I think that's that for a gym program, that's the goal. It's not lift more lifting, it's not more gymnastics, it's not more running. It's it's can it be balanced? And uh, if there's one thing I would very confidently say is cross it, our programming is balanced. We don't do everything as often as everything else, like meaning we don't squat snatch a lot for a few different reasons. We don't handstand push up a lot, we don't ring muscle up a lot. Um, but in terms of it being a strength and conditioning program, thanks for everyone. I'm gonna bring up a couple graphs and I'm gonna get some of you guys to start touching in on some of the programming because I don't want this to just be me.

Why Strength Wins Over Gymnastics

SPEAKER_03 49:40

So, Sam, as I show this graph to those that are gonna watch on YouTube, we asked how important different aspects of programming are to your specific training. Um, strength was the number one thing that Jim wants. All right, just gonna toggle this down. Okay, so right there you could see strength and conditioning right there. Um, strength was more than conditioning. I'm gonna scroll down a little bit. And for those that are not watching, gymnastics, to my surprise, was not desired as nearly as much as strength and conditioning. And it wasn't even close. I would say it was half of the people that failed out their survey want gymnastics. And there are some comments I'm gonna share later on. But Sam, touch on why you think the overwhelming majority of our gym really comes into they do CrossFit, they do biosymphies, they want to get stronger. That's what they want to do. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Uh it it didn't surprise. I mean, I was surprised when I saw these survey results, and then it made sense to me for a couple things. Um, one, as we get older, unless you have a specific gymnastics background in some way, learning gymnastics is really hard. Like I think most people struggle when they first start CrossFit, especially as an older age. If you've never done anything on the rig, upside down, walking, these are really difficult skill sets. All uh, and they're just and that's just the bottom line. They are. And progression on that is much harder than say increasing your front squat or back squat numbers uh with a squat program. Let's just face it. Um, number two, people value strength. That's why people go to the gym in general. I think the culture and um physiology literature out there is emphasizing that as we get older, we need to maintain muscle, we need to build muscle. Uh, things have changed over time uh in terms of that thought. And and so I think people uh are now sort of understanding that strength, especially as we get older, muscle building is a priority. And that is reflected in the survey results. The third thing is, and and this is this sort of reflects me as an average CrossFitter. Um, most CrossFit athletes go to CrossFit because it's fairly intense, right? We like, and I am no different, finishing a workout in a in a heap, lying on the ground, sore, feeling like I really just pushed myself and got a really good workout. And the second thing is is that I did well in that workout. Like I thought I really maximized my potential. And if you're not a gymnastics person, you know, if you know, and you have to do ring muscle ups or bar muscle ups or upside down, you know, handstand push-ups or or walks, and you had to scale it to bear crawls, like that's not a very satisfying feeling for most people. Like more people are like, give me a 135 back squat, like for when you know, if you're a woman, like multiple times or something like that, where I feel like I'm I'm pushing myself. And so so a lot of that is um is why I think the survey results are the what what they are. It's because it's what you prefer. If you're and I've heard this from multiple athletes, I wish we had Hero Week every every day because these are really hard workouts, and you're pushing yourself and you you collapse on the floor. But you know what? When I look at your programming, there are more days than not where you are doing that, right? Like if you look at this week's programming coming up, it is not like that at all. I looked at it, I was like, wait, where's all my classic CrossFit stuff here? Like, why am I doing dumbbell bench press and and this? And and you know what? That is the secret to programming success. So the reason why the gym is done, uh and this is my God's honest truth, uh, why it's done as well as it has been is because of the secret sauce is the programming. You've you you're probably more knowledgeable than I would say 99.9% of the people out there in terms of how to set up these workouts, how to set up, and I I would really love over an extended number of podcasts for you to talk about your philosophy, your thoughts, your overarching goals, your arcs, how you got high rocks to sort of influence some of this stuff. Because let's face it, the longer workout thing, which I think you're gonna talk about, that only came about when high rocks started to take off, right? So, so there are so many different influences here in terms of what people want, but it's funny, people want strength, but then they also want 30 or 40 or 50-minute workouts. Like, what are you gonna do? Be strong for 45 minutes? I don't think so. Like, that's not a thing. So, you know, uh I think the fact that everyone has something different, um, and I'm sure you'll you'll comment about all the complex movements, including Snatch and all these other movements, like because I know and I can already hear people listening going, wait, we're gonna program more snatch workouts in our gym. Like the uh I won't, I won't I've talked to a couple people about this and and they were pretty emotional about it. So hi Susan. Um, I will just say, like, the fact that you are um pissing everybody off to a little bit means, like you said, you're probably probably doing a good job with it.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yeah, yeah. That's a that's a good way of putting it pissing off everyone a little bit. Um, and yeah, before before Ash, before I get into the the female perspective on things, um, because we will we will touch on some of the longer workout stuff, some stuff that again, I am taking some of these survey results and implementing some of it, just so you know. You brought up high rocks, Sam, and Ash, we briefly talked about this earlier. The I I have people literally now wanting to run three, four days a week, like they think bison should be doing that. Um, not happening, okay. And those same people, I would say three years ago, or in that same genre of people, they said they joined CrossFit so they didn't have to run because you get so much cardio on a daily basis, and that's really what people view running as. Like, and I know runners, you guys get very zen with it, and that's awesome. But a lot of people, you know, grew up in a classic go to the gym, lift weights, and then go for a run or hop on the treadmill, and that's like a strength and conditioning feel. And now you go to CrossFit, you could have a strength day, you know, DT. Like you are you are that is cardio partially, like you're breathing really heavy, and I think that's part of one of the you called it secret sauce is that you can blend a lot of things together if you do it responsibly, and that that it the target is always moving with what people want, and I want to challenge everyone that has an opinion about programming. Are you actually looking at it from a fitness perspective, or are you looking at it from what you like to do perspective? Because we have two athletes that are complete antonyms to each other in the morning, they're complete opposites, and one of them wants to lift barbell only three days a week. That's all we should be doing. The other one wants gymnastics only workouts, and it's funny you put them like you almost like kind of want to put them in a room together and like let them hash it out a little bit and just like you know, it's like the political scene in today's world. It's like just go go into a room and yell about what you love and hate it and and what you hate. And to me, cross it, this is what it does, it blends everything together. You shouldn't want to always do what you're good at. Adam Ramsen brought up a great point on our over-training podcast from two up uh two weeks ago. He said, Normally the people that are really good at a specific thing, it could be running, the running workout we did on Friday, you know, like Owen walks in like bravado, you know, walking through the door on running days, and he crushes it. But it's also probably, you know, the runner, the gymnast, the lifter, everyone does the same thing. I do the same thing, by the way. You show up with swagger on a day you know you can crush it. And I also think it's probably the most effort you put into a workout that week because you know you can crush it, and you have to ask yourself if the goal is more fitness, does that actually make you fitter or it makes you feel good about yourself that day? Because if we all show up to the gym with that swagger of I'm gonna go after it today on the days you don't like the days you're not good at, I guarantee you I would die on this that you will get fitter if you show up with that attitude on those days. What and if that truly is the goal, you have to put some serious thought into it. Your opinions on programming, it's not about you feeling good about yourself, it's about becoming a fitter person. And you have to you really have to put some thought into where do your opinions come from in that regard, Ashley. From a female perspective, you've seen so many things in the market change when it comes to lifting, putting muscle on. I can remember, and I still deal with this, you deal with this, Liz. I know you have conversations, people deal with this, but it's not as often as it used to be. Because I think CrossFit and women in CrossFit have changed this that lifting is bad, it's gonna get me too muscular, and I'm not gonna be able to fit in these clothes, and it's not gonna make me feel feminine by lifting weights. Now it's like if you're not, you're doing something wrong. That's becoming more and more common. Um, eating protein, you know. Yeah, we we've talked to someone at the gym, everyone's man, I want to look like her. And like she's like, Yeah, eating protein is a part-time job. I take it very seriously. Like 10 years ago, people have been like, that was not something we often heard. Do you feel there is less demand for cardio among women now?

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Um, I think it's a balance. I know we had this conversation earlier uh this morning. Um, I do think that there is a big push for women as they start getting older. You know, menopause starts coming in to focus on what they're eating, whether they're eating enough protein, whether eating enough in general throughout the day. Um, but then also lifting to ensure that our bodies are strong enough to withhold um what goes on later on in life. Um so I think it's a generational thing. I think for a lot of like the younger people, um, especially now with high rocks coming in, I think people, their goals have kind of changed, right? So, you know, a bunch of us have done high rocks. So, like, yeah, I want to run more because I don't want to feel so crappy when I'm doing high rocks again. Like, I don't want Karen dragging me through high rocks um every year. I want to be better at running. Um, so I want to get better at running. But I do think that when you go into the programming, right? And and it's hard to say because I will be honest and say that I don't always do this. Going into each workout, if you set the mindset that I'm gonna go hard, every workout, like you said, DT is not a cardio-based workout, it's a lifting-based workout, but I can still get cardio endurance from doing these workouts if I do it properly. So I think that there's kind of a shift of yes, I want to lift heavy for like longevity. I want to eat more protein, I want to eat well for longevity. But I think there's also this big sense right now on high rocks and maybe doing marathons or a half marathon. So people do want to run, but I think that should be in addition to your CrossFit. That's not why we crossfit. We don't CrossFit to do long runs. You know what I mean? We do CrossFit to do all of the other things that if you want to do better at running, there's programs for that for you to do. Um, so I think it's just it's kind of where you are in your in your fitness journey.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:07

I do think in regard to running, you do what you and Karen did this morning. Like you don't go to the cross gym and go work out and do wall balls, burpees, cut about swings, and run work out. Just go run three miles, you know, and like that, you're gonna have to do that on your own a lot. And same thing with the people that want to lift. If you want like a three times per week squat cycle, you're gonna have to do some of that on your own. Yeah, because again, the it's

Hard Skills Need Practice Time

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

it's the realm, it's the gym that we're programming for, it's not the person, right? And I keep coming back to that thought whenever we start thinking about the gym, you're never making a decision for a there's not one person in our gym I'm making a decision for.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:41

It's like we're we're doing it for the group and what we think is best for the group. Now, Liz, you you and Adam just did a butterfly clinic and it was a big hit. And I'm actually, it's really cool to watch some of these people in class make progress within the butterfly pull-up. Um, something that came up a lot in regard to programming was that, and this is a tough conversation. We've already touched on a little bit, but again, I want you to kind of express what you think about this. There's you had a lot of demand in the survey for saying, Well, what about us that don't have these movements yet? We don't have toes apart, I don't have chest bar, I don't have I can't do a strict pull-up yet. Where's my clinic? You know, why can't I get the attention? Again, it stems back to attention, but I also think it comes from a genuine desire for people to get better. And I empathize with people that they don't have muscle ups. And here we are doing clinics on muscle-ups. I don't have handstand walks, I can't even get upside down yet. Where what's your response to that of saying, like, hey, what about a basic seminar? Does that even exist? Because I have a hard time even putting to that together in in my head.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:54

Um, yes, I think it's very important that the skills classes stay about all levels. Like it shouldn't just be a bar muscle up uh seminar, it shouldn't just be ring muscle ups, handstand walks, higher skill movements. I take it back to like, where like when did I learn all this stuff? How did I learn all this stuff? And we were at a gym with like Ash said, it was not many of us, and we stayed there for hours and just worked on things. And you look at it now and how it's progressed, and yeah, you have 30 people in class. Where in the world am I doing handstand walks? And like I remember going in with Owen and there was no class, it would be three hours. And I don't think it was the smartest way of learning how to walk in your hands, but we just we tried it, we failed over and over and over, but you can't do that now. So we're like trying to figure out how to get those people there, how to get you a toast to bar, how to get you a pull-up. And when I circle back, it's practice, it's time with coaches and yes, friends can help you as well, but it's having that time to practice in a safe space to learn how to progress and then how to bring that into a workout. And I think that goes true for a rigged slide the same way it goes for a toast to bar or regular pull-up. So seminars aren't going to be for everybody. Um, there's gonna be things you have to do to do those higher skilled ones, but I think it's also important to teach people how to do a pull-up in body positioning. And I think the best way to do it is just a small group skills class because we can't do that in a massive class of 30 people. Like not everybody wants to learn how to do a pull-up, you know, because they have pull-ups, they're doing butterflies like a higher skill. It's like, how do you get the whole class to just work on pull-ups? They're gonna stand there and roll their eyes, you know. So you have to kind of teach all different levels somehow. And I think skills class is kind of the easiest way to do that and give them time.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Yeah, agreed. It is tough to do in a class because, again, there's a lot of people they want to maximize that 50 minutes to an hour. They don't they don't want to spend nine minutes setting someone new trying to figure out how to do a kip. Like that's that eats into their workout time and that puts the coach in a bad spot. That is that's a really tough situation for a coach and for a programmer, even is like, you know, I do. Feel the gap between the most capable and the average is that that margin is growing as we go into the years because a lot of people put a lot more time into it than others. They can, it's not an it's not a knock at anyone who doesn't put the time in. There are just people that put a lot of time into training, and they're just they're rapidly improving um because they're putting the time in. And now that that gap, it's really tough to coach both ends of the spectrum. So I agree that one thing you did specifically because you made a lot of progress in your first people see what you can do now, and they they don't understand, they didn't know you 10 years ago, like what you couldn't do. Like you, you put you made a lot of strides because of the time you put in, like literally there for hours. You would never miss open gym, you would stay an hour after class, and that is uh generally what it takes. But I also think, Liz, one thing you did really well that you could project to other people that you were to this day, especially early on, I think you were one of the most coachable athletes I ever had. Like back when I was coaching 30 to 35 classes a week, I pretty much coached you every day. Um, and you you never like if I said Liz, you have to go do 100 strict pull-ups for a week, like you would have a spreadsheet how many you did an hour later, and you never missed it. You never like do you remember the 250, 200 meter row races we used to do? The every two minutes we would do it. We did that, I want to say we did that 80 times in a year, and you always did it. You sometimes showed up to the gym just to do that with me, so I wouldn't do it alone, but that's time, that's effort, that's pain. And now, if I really told this to sprint 200 meters on a row, I don't think anyone in the gym would beat her. And like, but it takes a lot of time and effort and diligence to do it. And I would I I want to challenge people that if that's something you want and a coach tells you, hey, to get your first trick pull up, you got to do barbell rows, bicep bicep curls, ring rows with a pause tempo. If you don't do it for a year, like don't come back saying you're frustrated about not having pull-ups because that's what it's gonna come down to. It's not advice that's gonna get you there, it's work, hard work that gets you there.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:14

I also think just to piggyback on that, I think that as an athlete, if you want those things and you want to get better at those things, like approaching a coach or coming to open gym and talking to the coach that's there for open gym, right? You know, they're not just there to work out. Um, you know, they're they're there to help, and especially all the other coaches that are there. Like talk to them and set up time to actually like like take that initiative, right? Like we've said, like there's not enough time in a class to give each individual person like a full rundown of what they should be doing to get better. Um but you have to, as an athlete, if you want that, you have to like say it, right? Say your goals out loud, tell somebody about it, tell a coach, and they can help you do that.

Levels System And Better Scaling

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

Sam, the levels approach, that was something that got a lot of hype um in the feedback. Um, I think it came up over a handful of times. People want, they like the levels approach. And the levels approach, for those that don't know, just real quick, a level two is what we would consider RX, level one. I don't want to say RX Plus, but just a high higher level of skill, more volume, more weight based on what kind of workout we're doing. And level three is kind of like what I say we used to be bison RX. We have leveled it up over the years. Um, that got a lot of positive flack. And I remember I've had conversations with you about Master's RX. This is like five years ago. You didn't like it initially, then you kind of did, then you kind of go back and forth a little bit because again, there is no perfect way to do the level system. Um, but I have had thoughts of making trying this for a month where every day is levels, like every single day there's levels, and some of it's volume. We've done that with running, level one, 800 meters, level two, 500 meters, right? We've done it with loads on barbells and dumbbells, and we've done it with gymnastics. Um, does that take away from CrossFit methodology programming at all? Or is it, hey, we got to blend this with reality of what our gym is facing, and that's that widening gap between the most capable, the average, and newer people.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

Uh, my experience is levels is a win, and the reason why it's a win is because we've talked about this. Athletes feel like they are winning, so it's really all about winning. So when you do levels, you don't feel like it's just RX or scaled. It's it's like um, and uh not that there, I mean, literally, there's nothing wrong with being RX or scaled, but obviously um people's self-esteem and and worth come into play, and when you can break it down a little more granularly with levels, it allows people to make better choices for the stimulus of the workout, and it can also allow people to choose based on how they're feeling that day. So I know personally I could do level two. Um almost never am I a level one person. Like I'm like, okay, Mike Warren and Amy Edelman and just like go for it, guys. And I'm um sometimes I'll do level two, but if I don't feel like that is my day or my workout, I'll do a level three, but I won't feel like, and it's so weird because it's a mental mind trick, it's literally like a Jedi mind trick. I still feel like, oh, I won. I did levels three and I did pretty good on level three, so that's good. Like, I don't know what it is about the whole level system that makes me feel that way, but it does make me feel that way, and so um it's one of those things that I know CrossFit HQ will will probably never embrace, unfortunately. And and there are a lot of concepts I feel like a CrossFit HQ could um not dilute CrossFit, but just offer more options in terms of how people look at programming. And um I think the only downsides is it's more work for a programmer to to set up levels. Um, and then the other thing is is um you you kind of I don't know, I still think you're pushing people because if you feel like you've been a level three person for a long time and you want to try level two, like the option is always there. So personally, and I think when I look at the feedback, I have never seen anyone, not a single person, say anything bad about levels.

unknown 1:12:36

Good.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

Yeah, I think it kind of just feeds into this whole like RX for scale. They've been trying to tell people this for 12 years, and I have not succeeded yet. That scale does not bad. It just means that you had to kind of change a couple things, modify. And um I you know, you just interviewed Mo Boak on your your bison 15 series, and heard and Michelle Fruciano come to my mind that Mo brought up as well on that episode. That those those two never have an ego with their RX and scale, and I feel like they just keep getting better, and but it's it's like a just a steady incline. You rarely you rarely see that at Cross at Chimps, and they don't give an F about having SC next to their name, and that literally will ruin people's days if there's an SC next to their name, and uh like I just can't find out, I can't find the way to be like, guys, you are flat out wrong for feeling that

Dark Week And The Open Feeling

SPEAKER_03 1:13:32

way. Um, but that let's um the last thing about programming is I just I have an idea about what we're gonna do for because I I'm I want you guys to stick with me here. Uh that dark week dark week here. The dark week is something we've done at Bison. We've done a few episodes on it already. We kind of know what it is. There's love hate with it, blah blah blah. Okay, dark week to me is a really good representation of what real CrossFit is, what real fitness is, the pursuit of crossfit, to the point where like Liz, I actually kind of feel bad for in Dark Week because because she's the head coach, she gets all the workout, so it's not really dark for her, and I want to be on the other side of it. So I am think I'm gonna have Bobby program our next dark week. Oh my god. Oh no, I know, I know. We're all screwed, by the way. Because I I want to be again, we talk about perspective. Like I plan everything at the gym programming. I do have biases, I try to avoid them, but I know I do. Everyone does, and I want to be on the other side of it, you know. I because I tell you right now, if Ash and I move to Arizona in two years, uh we're not going to, but the um and we joined across the gym, it would inevitably my opinion on the programming would come up. It's inevitable, right? Good, bad, what could you use more of? I want to be on their side of it. When you guys, Liz, when you think about dark week from the perspective of someone that kind of you know what the deal is behind it, you're coaching it. Um, you have done dark weeks where you don't know the workouts. Can you blend the feel and vibe of what the gym is like that week compared to what we don't have throughout the rest of the year in terms of self-proclaimed experts? Hey, I want this, I'm showing up to this, I'm not showing up to that. What's your perspective on dark week programming compared to the rest of the year?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

It's special. If you do it right, it's special. Um, I remember, I think it was Jackie Riley said to me, I never would have come to this workout. And she was surprised what she could do. It almost gives you like that open feel, a little bit of that open magic that there's things that you show up for and you're like, oh no, I don't want to do this today. And then you do it and you get through it, and you're like, wow, like I could actually do that. Or I did my first hundred double unders in a row, or you know, I I actually made myself run. Like it's just things happen that you normally would avoid because people don't understand how good they are at certain things sometimes. I think they don't see themselves through our lenses, and then they find out they can do something, which I think is pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:13

That's what fitness is, yeah. All right, well, this is what I'm gonna do. So I made this decision on the fly. Um, we're gonna do one more topic, and we're gonna skip for now the and we will do an episode on this, whether these guys get to come on, whether I can get them to come back on or not. We'll talk about the facility. We'll talk about the social media remarks, which were really interesting. And wait, facility, um, or a gym schedule. That that's something I do want people to know that we put some thought and effort into. And so the schedule, facility, and social media stuff. I'm gonna save for a different

Vibe Culture And Being Welcoming

SPEAKER_03 1:16:50

episode. We're gonna end with what might be the most important, probably the most wording, the most responses we got that were written out about the vibe and the culture. And um, I wrote, I think it was like a 16 to 17 page thing. I think everyone in here, I shared it with you guys about like bison, what our goals are, where we're headed, just my own thoughts. And I didn't put it out there publicly. It's just helps me kind of write things down, helps me process like feelings, emotions, thoughts, right? And I share them with people to help keep me accountable. That if I ever get away from what we're actually trying to do here, like call me out, go for it. And all three of these guys will and do. But in there, I said one of the first things I said is bison is a vibe, that is what the business is. And a lot of people with a business background that are like they can quote these encyclopedias and they have a PhD here and they're very well qualified in finance, they don't understand this, not to their detriment, not to not no fault of their own. But that's one thing a lot of people on the outside will never understand. This is more about vibe and culture. And what I mean by that is just people being positive and happy and selfless, and it being Liz is big on this place being inviting and an experience that can only be a positive experience if everyone, coaches and members, by the way, this is gonna be a dual responsibility that you maintain this culture to the best of your ability. And I want to spend the rest of our time talking about the responses that we got on this. And this can, if you don't have thick skin, this is not gonna be pleasant for some of you, but we're gonna dive in and we're gonna have some hard conversations. So we'll start it off on the positive side, okay. The most frequent word in the entire survey came from this question. It was how would you uh describe the vibe at CrossFit bison? The word welcoming was the number one word that came up. I think I counted it. Where's my number? 58 times. Um, in terms of gut good, really good, welcoming. Okay. Um, it can be as laid back or as intense as you want. You get what you give, you support all kinds of goals. Um, there's such a variety in ages and abilities here. It's competitive yet compassionate. That was one of my favorite lines. It is competitive at that place the day after the bison bowl, but it's also very passionate. And it it to me, like that's really important that the vast majority of our members that filled out the survey, um, they really did feel it was a welcoming positive place because if it's not, it's that's the beginning of the end for a gym. If it's kind of like way too clicky or it's negative, or people constantly talking about each other or being selfish with things, um, it's it's just not gonna work out. And that that was something that we really touched on. Liz, you're huge on vibe and culture. Um, and you do you're in charge of our events. Um you're one of the best coaches, if not the best coach at making people feel seen at the gym. Why is that? Why are you that way? Why do you think it's so important that Bison maintains that and even tries to improve it from where it is now?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:13

I just think we've all been there. Um, you just never want to feel like somebody feels unwelcome walking in. If I felt unwelcome walking in somewhere, I would never want to stay there. So I feel like it's it's the beginning, you know, of their journey there. And I feel like it's just how people should treat other people. I don't, it's been engraved in me since day one. I just feel like when I see someone I want to say hi, I I don't know, just how it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:43

Yeah, no, I know. I think that's a big part how you're brought up and how you live your life. And again, that's what we look for in personality traits of coaches. Not how good are you at CrossFit, not how uh good are you at giving coaching cues or coming up with sophisticated warmups, it's who who you are, and that's a big part of it. I mean, and Ash, you've you've been there from the beginning as well. And this whole term of you get what you give, you know, do and that's that's a really a football coach said that to me last year, and it's like been in my head ever since. Like the energy you give is the energy you will get back, and it's amazing that the people that think that man, this is a bad place, this is a bad place. I wonder if they have created problems themselves, or the people that feel welcomed, they love it, it's positive. I wonder if they put that into the gym and that's what comes back to them. As an owner, as a coach, as an athlete that's been there from the beginning, where do you think that should rank in our level of responsibility as owners, but just parts of the community?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

I think it should be pretty high, to be honest with you. Um again, I've said this before. Our members are what keep our business, right? If we don't have members, we don't have CrossFit bison. Um, so how do we keep our members? And like Liz said, if we if someone comes into the gym and they get this like weird vibe, no one says hello to them, you know, no one really engages with them and they feel kind of isolated, and you know, it's kind of like, oh, okay, I came in, I did my workout, I I went home and no one said a word to me. Like, well, why would anybody want to be there? Um, I think making sure that it's not just on you know ownership and on our coaches to be welcoming, but also on our members. Like again, what Liz said, like we've all been there, we've all been the new person at the gym and coming in. And how nice is it for the coach to say, hey, Sam, like, welcome to Bison. Like, here's everyone, um, introduce you to the class. Uh, you know, some people don't like the spotlight. Um, but you know, how nice is it for them to know who you are when they come in, for someone to engage with you and chat with you? Where are you from? Where do you, you know, where'd you grow up? Where'd you come from? That type of thing is huge. And that's what builds community. And that's a huge part of how um I think that we've had such great longevity over the last um, you know, 10 plus years is that we've built not just a gym that is great and that we've got great athletes at, but we've also built a great community. Um, and that starts with how do you feel when you first walk into the gym? We all have bad days, but when you walk in, like, do you feel at home? Do you feel like you're part of this team and part of this community?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:40

And and last one on the positive side, Sam, the the energy in the building is always high. Um, I love again the competitive yet compassionate. The you know, the gyms in general are very egotistical normally. And that can be any gym. A lot of people go there to feed their ego, they go there to show off, they go there to compete and compare and kind of fill that void of their life. And we don't look down on people that compete. We don't feel you know that we want people to feel like they're winning in any regard in life when they walk out of that building. But how from now, an owner perspective, but you've coached here for a long time, and prior to then you were one of our, I would used to call you the mayor, like the main members. How is that really our responsibility? Like, like, should we be facilitating culture and vibe at a place like this that is so many moving parts, changing lives, and a lot of egos? Is that a task that we should be taking on and stressing about? Because I've had people saying, like, dude, I can't would never want to do what you do for a living. It makes me feel great when people say that. But it's like, because that's a big part of the job, but should do we put too much into it? Should we be doing that?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:50

Well, I mean yes and no. So uh I do feel that fitness is uh an integral part of anyone's health. Okay. If you are not working out and if you're not trying to be fit, you have lost so like one of the biggest parts of your life. And I believe that as an athlete, as a physician, as someone who has studied um health, like so and I also believe that CrossFit is the best way to do that. Okay. Like, let me just say that. So if we're a CrossFit gym and we're trying to get people to become healthier, you need to welcome them because the group environment, the community is what drives people. If you didn't, everyone would be in their garage doing sit-ups and push-ups and all that, and all the um dusty exercise bikes that are sitting in people's basements would actually be getting used, but they're not because you need a group welcoming environment. And and the fact that we do, and I'm gonna say this because I have dropped into many gyms, and I've literally gone to gyms where people shunned me. So I was the new person, uh, they had a partner workout, nobody I was like the last person chosen. And you know what that I don't know, maybe you guys were great athletes growing up, but I've been there as a kid and I was like, oh my God, this is like what I felt like when we were playing kickball in third grade and nobody chose me. Like that's how I felt. And so if um, if I am that person that reaches out to that person who's sitting in the corner um and it's not friendly and and uh you know, and feels left out, it's like because I've been that person. And so um maybe that's why I always like, you know, maybe that's why I was called the mayor, because I like, you know, reaching out to people and and seeing, you know, how are you? Like they don't have to be the friendliest person. You uh oftentimes when you come into a gym, you're you are not. And I and I remember, you know what struck me? I remember you saying you went to your first comp and nobody talked to you, and you sat there in a corner eating your power bar or whatever, all by yourself about to do your workout. And like, yeah, my heart goes out to people like that. Like, how can you want to become better at fitness and not have anyone help you? Now, on the other hand, I don't want to be the culty person that like runs up and like hands you a big glass of Kool-Aid and is like, oh, this is the you know, like we, you know, there's there is a measured amount of it. Like, we want to meet people where they are, right? So I think we do a good job with that. I think when when we in like um when you guys do the on-ramps, Hawk, Liz, all you guys like we do a really good job trying to meet people where they are. People are scared when they first come in, like they don't know what their capabilities are, what the gym's about, what CrossFit's about. Um, I think uh the fact that overwhelmingly people who responded to the survey said welcoming means we're we're generally doing a really good job trying to meet people in that regard. And I I and I also feel like members um are also doing a really good job with that, especially since we have so many new people. Now, could all of us be doing a better job? Coaches, um, athletes, you know, anyone who is part of the gym, could we do a better job? Yes, and there are things that we could talk about in the vibe culture thing, especially probably one of the biggest vocal minorities are the longtime gym goers. And I want to address the people who have been here five years, eight years, 10 years, 14 years, and some of the feedback we got from them because I think that's really important. But I there's no doubt that if you're a new person and you walk into bison, I generally think very comfort, I feel confident that you could get a really good experience.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

Yeah, I don't think it's even debatable that someone new coming gets the treatment they should get. And I think it's exactly what Sam and you and Liz said. We've been there, and it sucks to be a new person in a gym or drop-in. Um, I remember vividly, we've done partner Saturdays forever where we made partners, and that's been been going on from the beginning, and it was because I remember at CrossFit Hoboken, they used to say, find a partner, and there was always like seven or eight people just awkwardly standing around. Like, felt so bad for them. I'm like, this is not what you want to do when you come to a gym. Like, that's the last thing someone wants to do is like, can you work out with me? So we do it and we take control of it. Um, let's see, where should we start first? On stuff that can be questioned and stuff that we need to question ourselves, but we're also going to challenge some of you guys and question you.

Clicky Feel Zones And Partner Saturdays

SPEAKER_03 1:29:40

Um, is I want to start off with this thing. The we we have a couple people, I think it was like four times. Again, I we have a pretty good feel. We just to put this out there, we gave the option to people to put their names on the surveys. And we thought and discussed that for a little bit. It helps us so much when someone puts their name on their comments because it does help bring in perspective and context, but I also understand there's a level of awkwardness people feel, especially if they're on the negative side, that they just don't want any repercussions. Um, that you know, I get it. You don't want to put your name next to what you say because of potential repercussions. There would never be, but I get why. And but I have a feeling that these comments came from people that have been around for over, I'd say, five to ten years. And it said, losing personal feel. You guys used to feel like a young, successful startup business. Now it feels corporate. And couldn't disagree more, but I understand that's how it, you know, to echo what I said earlier, it doesn't matter what I think about what you think, right? It's like that's what someone feels. They used to feel this nice, fun, inviting startup. Now it's a corporate gym. Um and it's kind of like the OGs versus the new people. I would like to challenge anyone that feels that way to understand the business side of this, that it's not anyone's job to view bison as a business, other than the people that work here. So that's first and foremost. Um, if we did not view it as a business, none of us would be sitting here right now. I don't know where we'd be. Um, if it was just a community for fun, we wouldn't be sitting here right now. And a lot of decisions need to be based on things that are out of the scope of a member. Money is one of them, space, lease, schedule, the changing lives of our coaches um that we try to modify things for over and over so that they are happy and they feel appreciated, right? Um, and I do think some of this can come from, I dare to even bring up new ownership anymore. You know, um, to me, it's not a sensitive subject, but to some of you listening, it is. Um, but one thing I would say our newer owners, I should say, do that has never been done before. Um, I don't know if this is completely appropriate, but I do think it needs to be known because the word corporate to me just doesn't sit well with these guys. Um, they haven't taken a dollar yet and they put a lot of money into investing in this gym. Every dollar that has come their way, every single dollar has gone back into the gym or into the pockets of our staff. And I don't know how many of people would, I don't know how many people, how many of you would have done that? If you were signing chets, I'm not gonna get into how much that is, but it was not a cheap purchase. And I don't know how many of you would do that, right? A big check like that in two years, just not take anything back, and who knows if you're gonna get anything back. You know, I told them to their faces my goal is to get them every single penny back and more. Um, but it comes after everyone else, it comes after everything else, and that's something to me that bothers me personally about the startup versus corporate comment is that corporate is we're getting paid. These guys are getting paid. That's corporate. Screw everyone else. I'm gonna fire these people so these guys get paid. We see that all the time. Private equity comes in, buys a company, those guys get paid, everyone else gets screwed. CrossFit, hello, affiliate owner. We're now paying extra money because new owners came in. Big check, and a lot of gym and a lot of gyms leave for that reason. These guys are not, in my opinion, we're more startup now than we were five years ago because of everything that we've added between power, nutrition, outlast, next gen, um, breakthrough, yoga. Like we're trying to start things up, and then all these all these hours that are being put in at the gym, cross at kids, like it's not the owners getting the money, it's not these guys getting the money. And to me, that's what a startup is. It's it's you know, Mike DeSoba was there this morning cleaning the gym. Um, and you know, Adam Hawkinson, I think it's really important. I got his permission to share this. Um, the new the new fans, the new fans in the gym. There's probably fifty thousand dollars worth of fans at bison. Um, most of that has come from Adam. And again, how many people would do that? I don't I don't know, without asking for anything in return. And the only the only thought behind that is let's just make the place better. So I think it's really important before anyone gets into that kind of conversation about that kind of leadership stuff. These guys, I'm really when I say these guys, I'm talking like Sam and Susan and Mike and Hawk, and they did not ask me to tell this. I'm probably actually gonna get some flack for this, but um they they're doing things that I think most people would not even think about doing, and I mean that. Um, so I would be a little careful with bringing the conversation in that direction. Sam, you don't need to touch on it unless you want to, but do you do you jive with that at all? Should I be shutting up here on this podcast? Like, do you want to say something about that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:05

Um, I love you as an owner and Ash. I love Mike, I love Hawk. I've been here for a long time, and and and and all of us want the gym to be better. None of us went into it for any other reason. And I think um we're not perfect, okay. And I understand that, and that's why the survey is important because if people feel that way, then we can that just shows we can do a better job, either communicating or just executing. And we need that, like as owners. We are we have made mistakes, we're going to continue to make mistakes. Um, I wish Hawk hadn't spent so much money on the fans, but like like listen, it was the intent was good and maybe it helped a little. I don't know, but like, yes, like so please help us as owners to help Dave because let's face it, Dave has started this with others, and and and now we're the ones helping him. And and the only thing we want is for this thing to get as um successful as possible, and that for everyone to be there to have the best um health and life and fitness experience. And that's why we're trying all these different modalities, and is because we feel like do people benefit from nutrition help? Yes. Would people help from mobility? Yes. Would people help from like alternative methods of exercise, not just straight up cross? Yes, like these are all questions that we're trying to answer, not what is going to maximize our profit so we can take home a bigger dividend check. Like that has never been, and honestly, no matter how nice Dave is saying it, will ever actually come into fruition. Like that's not why we're we're we're doing it. And and I feel like if everyone um sort of works that way, like you know, even as a member, like if you feel like your environment can be made better by you treating someone else in a way that you would want to be treated, or you doing the workout the way you would want others around you to work out, like that's all we're asking for. And and tell us what we're doing wrong. I appreciated this survey so much because like these were not things people aren't coming up to me and saying, Hey, you changed the vibe, you suck. It was better 10 years ago. Like, no one has told me that. So when I read it, I was like, What? Oh, okay, thank you. Like, I appreciate that people feel that way, and I want to I want to know that. So, so please like continue. Like, that's that's the only way we're gonna know.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:42

And Ash, the the anything feeling different 10 years ago, we can get away from from owners, right? We can get away from the people in our gym. Inevitably, lives have changed, right? I I love getting nostalgic sometimes, going back and beast advice and looking at open party pictures from 2016 to 17 and 18, no kids, staying up till four in the morning, coaching at 7 a.m., still probably leaping at the gym, yes, probably still intoxicated. Um, don't tell anyone. Um, but the how much does that make a culture change? Right? Like you can look at everyone's lives in this video alone and say the lives have changed, but then you multiply that by a hundred people that are still here eight to ten years later, like nothing almost nothing is the same. Who you hang out with, your kids, where you live, how much does that impact a culture or where it currently sits when people are constantly comparing themselves to the past, their bodies to the past, but also the vibe of a gym to the past?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:45

Well, to go off of the nostalgic feel, I was talking with uh Mike S, Jess Torch, uh yesterday after bison bowl. And I was like, oh my gosh, we used to do keg stands and dance parties and you know, it was just a whole nother lifetime, I feel like.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:05

Um they couldn't they could not hang with us these right now. They couldn't even touch what we did back then, just so you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:14

I agree, I agree. Um and I just I I think you know, like you can look at our lives, you know, just our lives specifically. You know, we started this and we would hang out at the gym. Like I would get out of work and we'd hang out at the gym until 9:30. Liz and I would do muscle ups and literally have each other on our shoulders, like trying to teach ourselves how to do muscle ups. Um, because we had all the time in the world, we didn't have other obligations, we didn't have, you know, kids and dogs and lives and you know, stuff like that. And um, so I think like from that perspective, like the gym itself, if you look at everybody in 10 years, like has drastically changed. We've one gotten older, our priorities have changed, you know. Like I don't want to be at the gym till 4 a.m. Like that's way, way past my bedtime. Um, you know, like I, you know, we have Brock now. Like we've got sports and activities, and he's got bedtime and things like that that, you know, have changed. Um, you know, again, having a baby, like my body's definitely different. Um, the way in which I look at workouts, the way in which I, you know, look at those things has changed in 10 years. Um, I think I remember you and I, and I feel like some people were talking about this. Like, if you look at anything in your life, when have you consistently loved something for 10 years straight and still done it? Not a lot of people can be like, oh yeah, I've done this for 10 years. Because you have changed, right? Like you yourself has changed as a human. So the fact that those people have been here for 10 years, like I applaud them. Like, hey, like CrossFit's not easy, and that you've been here for 10 years is amazing. Um, but that group feel that we had way, way back, like we were also like starting up a gym, starting up like you left your job. I remember when we first started dating, you were like, I don't have a job. I was like, oh God, how am I gonna bring this person home to my family? He doesn't have a job. Um, but like we started this and put our blood, sweat, and tears into it. And now it's like a well-oiled machine, right? We've got Liz who's heading up our staff, we've got owners who want to be here, want to be involved, and like want to give back to everybody. And so everybody's changed. The business has changed, people have changed in 10 years, it's inevitable. So to say that like the culture has, you know, used to be better or it's changed is kind of like, well, you know, look inside a little bit and argue the same person that you were 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:58

Yeah. Um, Liz, I think we're the only gym in the CrossFit world. I've never heard of a gym that does this, that we put people in zones and um like we have zones in our gym, we have to do it because of COVID. We kept it because people asked us to keep it. And this feeds into a common word that came up that's probably gonna come up in this comes up in church, comes up in school, comes up in any social environment, and it's clicky. You know, the gym feels clicky at times, which I think I'm not a huge uh I get the meaning of words wrong sometimes. I pronounce words wrong sometimes as well. But clicky to me is like it's like friend groups within a group, and you feel like they're not inviting to others. So some of the comments I got, and I want you to touch on this, and you could kind of tie in the zones or take it however you want to and spin it. Um there's a lot of long-standing relationships and friend groups, and they're not welcoming or approachable. Um, it's very tough to be someone new without a social plug-in. Um, depends on the class in terms of how clicky things get. Um hey, it's inevitable, but your gym is clicky. Um, the Saturday partners have gotten out of hand. It's crazy. The amount of conversations we've had about partners on Saturdays. Someone, it's it's but again, someone feels that way. Um, I have people that don't come on Saturdays for this reason. They don't want to be um feeling like what Sam was feeling like, hey, I'm just here to work out, but I'm not a friend of these nine people, and I'm gonna be stuck in the corner with someone I don't even know, and they're all working out with each other for the ninth straight week. Um, I want you to touch on whatever you're willing to share, the conversations that we've had and the conversations you've had with coaches about there is a rationale behind zones. And I also think some of the members, to be blunt, need to listen to this.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:55

So I'm gonna say that um they're not wrong in some of this. And we've had conversations about this, we've noticed it. Um, we are owning some of this, and our coaches will be changing some of this. Um, you're not coming to the gym with your friends to hang out. That's not why we run classes, and you know, it's not like a class group hangout. You're there to learn, you're there to work out, and we're lucky to have community around us for accountability. And yes, there are new people, there are people that have been there for five years, there are people that have been there from the beginning. And we do have to keep it more structured now because you have 30 people in a class, and you say go find a pull-up bar, and there's two people that just get pushed out because you know everyone runs their favorite pull-up bar, they want to be with their friends, so it's that's not gonna happen. So we use the whiteboard, you know, to make sure everyone has a place here to make sure that you know there's mingling going on. And does that mean that like I'm not gonna be next to my best friend? Probably, right? Like there might be two people in between us, and that's okay, right? That's where conversation happens, that's where friendships begin. Like, I will say this. Brian, my husband, has met his best friends in this gym. Like he had a group of friends growing up, he still talks to them, but he has something here that's so special, and it didn't come from him coming to the gym with one person and working out with that one person every single day and always being with that person in the same zone. It came from meeting other people along the way, it came from events, going out with friends. Like that's how we met them. They were in his wedding, you know, and we want that for everybody. You know, we want people to find their way here, we want to help them find their way here, help them find people, and that ties into Saturdays as well. I know I made a joke of this at our staff. I was I was asking them to send the whiteboard to a group chat, and then it ended up being me texting it to myself. But the reason being was to try to rotate the pairings a little bit, and it's not always gonna be um let's say very like elite athletes together all the time, and it's never gonna be the two beginners together all the time. I think success comes when you you mix it sometimes and you meet different people. And some of my best workouts have been with people that I haven't had super long conversations with. So I think that's the beauty of Saturdays, and we do need to get back to that. I think we we ventured off a little bit, and sometimes it's just easy when it's like, oh, these two perfect, same height, they work out together, they do the same weights, and then there's the logistics. Like you can't always have, you know, a guy and a girl in each zone with two barbells, you know, and then we have two dumbbells, and then now they gotta go upside down. We need two rig height, like there has there is some some organization that needs to be there, but I think we could put a little extra attention into mingling people a little bit, um, and making it more of a safe space for everybody because everyone is friendly, it's just sometimes you get caught up talking to the person that you know the the best.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:51

Yep. Yeah, and again, this just goes to the members. Like you guys have to look at it from just like programming, you can't just look at it from your perspective. I want to work out with this person. Like, we don't care. Like it, we know, we also know who you want to be with, and there are times you do get to work out with them. Um, but what I think what a member usually does not see is that the is the other 90%. Like that 10%, like you guys want to be locked in with each other. You were locked in with each other last week and two days ago at Open Gym and four weeks ago as well. But like every other time you work out, there's the other 90% that there's someone new in the gym that none of you guys talk to. And that's like it's always hard for me. It's like a cringy thing to me sometimes where you have a new person 10 feet away from a group of four people talking, and none of them even acknowledge that person. And while it's not their job as a paying member to go into uh have a conversation with someone, they are paying to come here, they can do what they want in some regard. If I'm huge on like just give more than you take, because if everyone takes more than they give, at some point there's nothing left to take. And like if you can always just be like going in there, we get asked all the time, what can I do to help? That's honestly, that's it. Like, you don't need to donate time on a weekend, just go talk to someone new. Make sure someone is not being kind of pushed to the side. Don't text me Friday night at 9:44 p.m. asking for a partner on a Saturday, you know, because I get it. We do know who you want to, but it does throw off a big part of what we're doing with this culture, which is a big part of our gym.

Scores Competition And The Whiteboard Mirror

SPEAKER_03 1:48:27

Um, the competitive side to the gym, this came up multiple times. Um, there are people that think us logging scores on a whiteboard and in the app is actually detrimental to our gym. And the reason is twofold. One of them, people cheat. They will literally cheat so that they look better on a non-leaderboard. It's not a leaderboard, everyone, it's a scoreboard. All right, leaderboards rank you, and that only exists with competitions. But the scoreboard, if people are going to lie about their score so that others feel that they are a fitter version of themselves, what it also does, it creates gossip. It goes, oh, that person cheats, that person only did X amount of reps, that person's in a squat, that person's a liar, just a lot of negative vibes in conversations with people at the gym. And I'll raise my hand. I've been a part of those conversations, absolutely. Um, I don't know if I have if I'm allowed to or not with the position I'm in at the gym, but I have been a part of those conversations, and even worse, the hearsay from other conversations comes to me. Oh, these three people at the bar were you know bashing this person because she cheated in this work and blah blah blah. You wonder someone said she goes, I wonder if you would have less of this like weird, hostile stuff between people that don't know how to channel being competitive, if it would just be a more Positive environment if there were no scores ever on the whiteboard at the gym, but also in the app. You can make it private. I can make that private where only you see it. I do have that ability to do that. Ash, touch on that. You know, you've wavered with how competitive you get. I do think you've always had a level head with being competitive, like it truly is. Just do your best. And if you win, great. If you lose, not really gonna think too much about it. But we've all had weak moments. There's not a person in this podcast that has not had a weak moment in regard to this. It's part of growing up in CrossFit. Um touch on the fact that we record scores and how it could, in a competitive environment, how it could actually be a detriment and should we modify the way we do things?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:43

Um, I do see the side of you know putting scores up there because I do think um, you know, there are people whether they do it on purpose or they don't, and they just get wad brain and forget, um, do kind of change the scoring, right? Um however, I do think that for the most part, people, you know, either are aware of those people or you know, don't care. Um I I think from a negative standpoint, right? I understand having the app and how it does put, you know, like whoever had the highest score at the top, and that can kind of be, you know, a little disheartening for some people sometimes. I mean, trust me, there's times that I'm scrolling down to find myself. Um, but I think it's at the end of the day, you have to have the mindset that everybody's journey is a little bit different. Um, so that might not have been a great workout for me. Like, trust me, Friday's workout with the running, we were in two different heats. I was getting lapped by the second heat and I was in the first heat. Um, you know, like you just have workouts that are yours and workouts that are not. Um, but you have to be humble enough to kind of to recognize that. Um, but I don't think from a business perspective, I don't think that we will get rid of having the whiteboard or, you know, the the app just because I feel like the good outweighs the bad. Um I think it's great when you see somebody's name who's at, you know, who's on there, you know, whether it's at the top or at the bottom and in the middle, that you're just like, oh my gosh, like you did awesome today. And like you get to like it or comment on it, you know, and and I feel like it it does help, you know, the nighttime crew. You know, I can look at somebody, I can look at Nicola Kino and be like, what weight did she use today? Um, what were her comments on it? Um, so I think the you know, the good outweighs the bad with that. And I think people just have to kind of stay in your own lane and just be like, yeah, if it's a a push-up workout, I know I'm not looking at X, Y, and Z's scores because they don't touch their chest to the ground, or this person doesn't have range of motion on their squats, so I'm not gonna look at their scores, you know. You kind of have to have like the know-withal to kind of just chalk it up and be like, okay, that's their journey, that's not mine.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:14

Yeah, I mean, the the older I get, Sam, the older I get, and I'm still competitive, I still have competitive goals, but like the more experience I should I get, the less I care about people cheating, other than it's just like it's stupid to do. Like you literally are the biggest loser if you're cheating. And I don't, I'm not calling you a loser, I'm saying you will lose out on what you're trying to accomplish, right? Like, if you literally do less reps so that you can win on the whiteboard, you're literally getting it further away from this competitive goal that you have. It's like it's so stupid. But I got I've gotten to the point where people get really stressed about this, and like in my head, I'm like nodding my head, I'm like, I don't care. Like, I just I don't care because I'm like I have filters for people, like when I see their scores, it's just like it's a random blade of grass to me. Like, it just doesn't matter to me that their scores elite and I know they didn't get there. They have internal problems that I'm not qualified to fix, and that's that kind of is what it is. Do you think that a coach's job is you've had really strong thoughts about these awful push-ups that people do? And that's this came up in the survey that people are terrible at push-ups, literally. People are like, Why are these people doing them this way? Like, what's the point? Um, as a coach, you got to care in class that people are moving correctly, right? But this whole concept of scores and people that used to be good, but they don't have it anymore, or they lost a little bit off that fastball, you know, what where do you go with that conversation? Because I know a lot of people have that conversation with you. Um, is it a detriment to what we're actually trying to do in terms of helping them?

SPEAKER_02 1:54:55

Uh, it can be, yes. So I've come to think of the whiteboard and scores as a mirror, and I've had my journey, everyone has their journey with the mirror. So I have been at different parts of my life in different perspectives of what that mirror shows me. So I used the whiteboard as a mirror for my self-esteem. And when I was really good, it really bolstered my self-esteem. And I said, look, I could really do well here and I could compare myself to these people, and I'm right there. And then on other days, um, I got more mature and I said, you know what, this is not a reflection of who I am and what I do. Um, and so I don't have to look at that mirror, but I've gone up and down on it, like more recent, you know. So uh everyone has to go through that journey with this. It it is not, it is nothing but a bunch of numbers, yeah. And so how you interpret it is what is important. So some people will look at it as extremely important to them, and others will not. Some people have come to the gym and never cared ever what that showed them, and others have left the gym because they couldn't handle what that showed them, and so it is literally a mirror into your own self. And if right now I'm using it as trying to motivate myself. So um I did that push press squat clean cluster thing, and I had missed a couple, and I got to the gym and there was someone who was sort of like me, and you know, I kind of look at their numbers, and their push press numbers were like, you know, 40 pounds more than mine, and their cluster was like more than mine, and I was like, whoa, that really showed me like I thought I was pretty good, but just missing a couple sessions of that really hurt me. And I wasn't jealous or mad, or it was more a reflection of where am I sitting with this? And I I probably will need to try to make that up. The other thing I also see is when other people game the system, for example, um, when you're doing you know a high like rep max squat or something, this will never, I will always burn this into my brain. I saw someone go 95, 95, you know, 135, 255 or something like that. Okay, and they wrote 255. And I saw Adam Storms like hit like I don't know, 165 from the get-go all the way through, and his number was at 165. Now, who got a better workout? Who was more fit? Like, you know, like I saw that, and I saw Adams did not care. Storms did not care what that number was. He went heavy from the get-go and he finished at the same weight. The other guy sandbagged it, which I have done too, where he went super light and then at the very end threw up an insanely high number because you could do it for just like a few reps. And and so again, it's a mirror. So, how do you you use that mirror? Um, that mirror should always be there because if you don't have that mirror to look at, then how do you know what you're doing? But you have to look at yourself. It's not, it's not, and if someone cheats and uses that mirror, tells you a little bit about them too. So um, I don't talk, I don't want to talk about how someone else is using that mirror, it's just it's just for myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:58:21

Yeah, that was great. That was a great analogy, Sam. Thanks for that. Um, yeah, train harder, compete less. If everyone actually did that, guarantee you will be better a year from now. Train harder than you do now, but compete less than you do now. You will get better at some point. You should be tested. We view the open as that. Some of you guys sign up for different competitions and qualifiers, but every day at the gym, in my opinion, unless it's like fun banter, it's not a competition. Like Mike Warren, he's a cute little puppy every now and then. He's like a little trash talk, he makes it to the third minute of the workout, he crashes and burns. But like, no, but he is he's doing fantastic right now, and he he'll he'll let me know every time he beats me and other people as well. And that's to me, that's fun. I don't know if everyone is good at having that fun filter, but in your internal thoughts, what Sam was just talking about, all that internal dialogue. Like, if you compete every single time, you're constantly comparing, you're robbing yourself so much of joy, ambition, discipline, and your long-term goals. So, again, really try to take that home that you should be training harder, but competing less often. And I really think you you will win out in the end with

Events Friendships And Life Changes

SPEAKER_03 1:59:45

that. I have one last thing in regard to the vibe and the culture, and then we're done. Okay. Um, and Liz, I'm gonna start off with you. You are our event planner, and I I question whether or not I should even bring this up, but this was a big part of the survey, and hard conversations are positive. Okay. Um, connecting people outside the gym. Okay, it's a dangerous game, but it's something that we have done forever, we continue to do, and I'm pretty sure we're always going to do. Um, it's been brought up, and I don't have any factual objective proof of this, and I kind of disagree with it, but it's hey, we used to get people together more often in the past than we do now. There used to be more events, there used to be more social interactions, there used to be more kind of like what happens after the open or after the bicycle, people go out and just hang out with each other all the time. Um, that to a lot of people in the survey seems like it's not what it used to be. It's losing a personal feel. Um, there's not as many friendships, truly genuine friendships outside the gym. As someone that is in charge of our events and you do an awesome job, 10 out of 10, with every event you plan, and you put a lot of time into it. And there's a lot of finances behind it as well, from ownership perspective. Um, where what do you think about that when someone says, Yeah, you guys, like it's our job, you guys don't get us together as often as you used to.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:25

That's a loaded question. Um financially, I think a lot of people don't know that ownership is very heavily involved in funding some of the things that we do. Like when we did the horse race party, right? That wasn't we didn't ask members for anything, and that was fully funded on them, the holiday party, et cetera. So there is a limit to how much that can happen. Um, we could do things every week if we wanted to, right? But how expensive would that get, right? So that is one thing. We did, I think, limit that to like three big ones a year, and I think that is that's good. And then there could be more, I would say, um, just like locally, whatever you do. Like you can put that on the board and be like, hey, we're all going to W's today, right? But it's also like, what else is there that you can do besides hang out at a bar all the time? You know, like there has to be some other things that could go on, and I do think that we could talk about doing more events, but I also think it's on other people too to like, hey, maybe I like Katie K, she's amazing. I want to open up my house to the ladies, and every lady is invited. So she takes that on herself to host that. Um, I'm not saying everyone needs to invite the whole gym over, but she does you know offer that. And I think that that's part of it as well, is like if you you know have a place that you can do that and you want to bring it up to near bring it to my attention, I will absolutely help you plan something like that um going forward.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:53

But yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, I mean, I do think that's a lot of people. I think what a lot of newer people at Bison don't realize. When I say new, I'd say within the last three to four years, um, they don't realize that a lot of things that got people together in the past were simply people putting together themselves, they weren't like gym events. It was definitely now there's another angle to this as well. I'm not afraid of saying this, so I don't want to put put you guys on in a bad spot, but I do think factually, um in any community that's been together this long, there are going to be some relationships that strengthen and there's gonna be some that weaken naturally. That would happen in any area in life. It doesn't mean some people hate each other, although that is the case. Um, some people love each other, that is the case. There are just certain pockets of time that people don't have anymore. Example, yesterday after bison bowl, we hung out. I was exhausted, I didn't even work out, and I was exhausted. People were like, Oh, like 11th central or going here, like come out here. And I was like, I haven't seen my son since yesterday morning. I'm not gonna go home and then leave. And I'm at that point, and a lot of people I know, um, in our frame of mind or our time of life, they would rather be home and with their kids than out. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think anyone should be offended by that. But when you have a large group of our gym that's kind of in that section of, hey, we're just not as available as we used to be to just randomly go out, that that that's a big part of what getting together is, and the harder conversation on this is I do think over time things get said, things happen where people don't want to hang out with people that they used to hang out with. I think that's part of it, and that's a hard pill to swallow. But again, this comes back to the energy you give is the energy you get. And the limited time that a lot of people have available now, they might not want to spend it with each other, in addition to working out at the gym with them. They might want to be with others. So that's something I want everyone to kind of look inward on is that we're not, in my opinion, uh, we're not a drama full gym. We don't have a lot of drama in our gym like a lot of other social uh groups, social clubs do, but there is some. And it puts some people in a really uncomfortable, really bad position because you have to kind of force to make a decision to show up somewhere or not, to invite someone out or not, and that can immediately turn into a clicky type environment where in reality there's usually a thought and reason why some of these things have happened. Um, Ash, we've had conversations about this. Any additional thoughts to that?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:47

No, I think like, you know, as Liz said, um, if people have stuff or like, hey, like a group of us were chatting about going to do this, like reach out to Liz and be like, hey, can we throw this up on, you know, Bisa Bison? Or, you know, can we make it into like an event? Like there needs to be no cost behind it, but like, can we do something like that? Like, we'd be more than happy to like post about it. And, you know, and and I do think that you know, friendships form at the gym, you know, some of our best friends are are from the gym. Um, and I think that's natural to to have. You can't, you know, we suffer together, we you know, like to hang out together. Um, but like you said, like things just things just change. And I feel like, you know, I hate to keep saying like we're old, but like, you know, the older you get, like it's quality over quantity sometimes, you know. Like I'd rather Liz throw three quality events that everyone can go to that really, you know, brings us together as a community than 12 small events where you know you either get the same people to come to or it's just not as impactful, you know. Again, quality over quantity. Um, and I think that way with people's friendships too, you know, like a lot of people like just want to have like their small circle of friends and um and you know, don't want to hang out with 200 other people.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:17

Yeah. Um, and and Sam, I mean, the the alcohol industry right now, if you do any reading and research on what's happening there, it's getting crushed. Like there, there, and a lot of people are now more health-centric. And Liz said it's like, well, we can't just go sit at a bar all the time. Like, occasionally you do that, right? We've had all had our weekends there, we still do, but someone asked me, like, well, why don't we just like get together for uh a game or we all go to the beach one day? And it's funny how just me personally, if you said right now in the next six weeks, hey Dave, let's find a Saturday or Sunday that we get the whole gym to go to the gym, like I don't have any Saturdays or Sundays open until the end of August. And even that, hey, I gotta be home by eight o'clock for this. Like, there's there's things that um there it's just not realistic to do unless the people do it themselves to initiate. And Sam, in an environment where drinking is not as commonly done, what is there anything that comes to mind that says, like, hey, young kids like to do this? You do it. You have a couple kids in college now that maybe the gym, maybe just people listening, not for the gym to plan for you guys, but maybe there's some things that they like to do that maybe some other people in the gym can kind of put together themselves and see if some others want to join.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:34

Yeah, I mean, a lot of it is spontaneity, like you know, people are already talking about a corporate vibe. Like, for us to like make it more corporate-y would be like I think people like when we did these things. First of all, I mean, some of it was just absolutely stupid. I just remember some of the stupid things I did, which was just not like really bad, like not good, like I was not in a good state, like I drank too much or you know, was stupid. And um, so I don't I look back at like you were like, Yeah, we were awesome. Like, dude, you you you don't want to go back and do that. Like, you really don't like like you you you don't want to hang with the young people at this point. That that being said, um, yes, do my do my kids go out and hang and have fun and do crazy stuff? They do. Um, it you're right, it is a little different. Like, um, I would say I I don't really, it's a this is a good question, and I don't know if we have a really good answer. Like, I will tell you this like over the winter, I was like, you know what, there are a bunch of guys, like the girls have their thing. So I was thinking, you know, we should get a couple of the guys, guys who who usually just work out in the morning and don't don't really hang much, and let's try to get them together. And so I was starting to reach out to some of these guys, and most of them are kind of corporate y, so they're really busy, and most of them are like, okay, and and and then I just gave up because I just didn't I I don't want to go out anymore. I uh and most of these guys are real busy, and so as much as we would like to try to do some of these things and we have good intentions, like I I am amazed at what Liz does because it's really hard. And like, shout out to Katie and everyone else who who do do them. Like you say, we throw out a lot of these ideas, we realize that there uh could be a need for more social interaction. We recognize that the survey does say stuff like that. Um, we have thought about it, we are trying. Um, it's really hard for a lot of reasons, not just because we're old, but just because of a lot of reasons. Like, I don't want to say that just because we're old, like um, or we have kids or we have sports, like it's just a bunch of things. So, but if people have ideas and thoughts, we would love to do them. Like, I will. I have literally like thought about it myself and said, I do need to do more, I can do more. Um, and so if if people have thoughts, like um Ash said, like talk to Liz, talk to us, like we would love to do more um outside of just whatever people think their clicks are that clicks are doing. Like we want people to, I don't want to call them clicks, I want people to have friends and do their things, and I see people do that all the time. And I I celebrate that. I really I think that's awesome because as Liz said, so many of them became friends at the gym. And if you want more of that yourself, then like we're here to help you with that. We we do want that. So, so um, maybe we don't have the best ideas, maybe you have a better idea. Like, come to us or or talk to any one of us, and and we will really try to make that happen.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:40

Yeah, I can't imagine any of us being like, no, no, we're we're we're not. I'm not gonna help you try to get people together for XYZ. As long as it's not like doing shots or like stuff like that, like I'll or you know, I'll be there. Yeah, like be aggressive. Like, I know there's people. Here's a good example. There's people that show up every Thursday night during the open to support people that are doing the heat, like that stuff, like that shows something. And like, is it an extravagant event? No, is it cost money? No, is it a great time? Yeah, and you talk to some new people there, like that stuff that means something, that kind of stuff, and it um there's a carryover to it, uh it kind of spills over into your relationships outside the gym. All right, so I think um I think we oh, I just saw the note. Oh, cool. We have a chat room. I didn't even know that. Cool.

unknown 2:12:25

I was like, how do I tell them?

Next Steps And Closing

SPEAKER_03 2:12:27

So that is gonna wrap it up. I know some of you did share, and we are I will do another episode, whether it's with these guys again or just Sam, like we'll we'll talk about what we can do schedule-wise. Um, but some of the things that we will touch on our gym schedule, what we want to add to our schedule, or what we might down the road, and our kind of thoughts on that. Um, the facility, which includes the parking, the showers that we don't have, um, air conditioning, cot topic right now. Um, if you only knew uh the pull-up bars that are slippery because you guys keep wiping them down with the stupid frog rips, um, daily bathroom cleaning, barbell, the equipment that you want, um, our social media, which I am gonna implement some of this stuff, the cameras at the gym. Um, do we take advantage of it? Synergy between Outlast and Bison, all of that will come in the next episode of the Bison Survey. We don't have time to touch on all of that now, but I do want you guys to know we will touch on that in one way or another via the podcast. And I want to give all those topics the respect that they deserve. There's also a few things we are taking from the survey, and I need to run by Liz, especially, um, and Bobby, which we're meeting this week. I'm just gonna talk about a couple little things, but I don't want them to find out via a podcast. I want to have a conversation. So just know that there are things that we have talked about, we will talk about. Nothing got pushed to the side. We didn't take anything from the survey and say, you don't know what you're talking about, right? Um, you know, just be patient with some of this stuff that you really want at the gym. If it makes sense for the entire gym, um, it'll probably happen. And we, but we need to continue to hear it. So don't ever hesitate to share um your opinions on what we could do better for this place, for the community, and yeah, even for you. So, Liz, thank you. Ashley, thank you, and Sam, thank you. This is by far a herd fit podcast PR. Two hours and 14 minutes. Um, I will give a free fidday to anyone that listened to this start to finish without stopping. All right, thank you guys. Have a great rest of your day.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:39

Bye, guys. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:42

Thank you, everybody, for taking the time out of your day to listen to the Herd Fit podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.