S06E193 The First Month of Outlast: Conversations, Questions, and Connections

From old locker rooms to a thriving fitness space – join coaches David Syvertsen @davesy85 and Sam Rhee @bergencosmetic as they peel back the curtain on the first exciting month of our new gym Outlast Fitness, our newest venture located right in front of CrossFit Bison.

The questions have been flooding in: Who is Outlast for? How does it differ from CrossFit? Is it a stepping stone to more intense training or its own complete fitness approach? We tackle these questions head-on while sharing the candid conversations we've had with members, coaches, and curious fitness enthusiasts.

At its core, Outlast fills a critical gap in the fitness landscape. While CrossFit delivers unmatched results through its methodology, many people remain intimidated by barbells, pull-up bars, and the perceived intensity. Outlast maintains the strength-training focus that's essential as we age but packages it differently – using dumbbells, kettlebells, and functional movements in smaller, more personalized classes that one member described as "feeling like personal training."

We explore the fascinating dynamics between the two programs, including the CrossFit athletes who have found a new home at Outlast and the newcomers who might eventually try CrossFit after building confidence here. The coaches share how coaching smaller groups creates a different but equally rewarding challenge, allowing for deeper connections and more focused movement coaching.

The programming philosophy blends CrossFit methodology with accessibility, creating workouts that can be scaled for everyone from fitness beginners to seasoned athletes. As Coach Dave notes, "At the end of the day, if Adrian Bozman was sitting here, a lot of what we're doing in Outlast you would say is CrossFit – just one aspect of it."

Whether you're curious about functional fitness, contemplating a change in your routine, or simply interested in how fitness communities evolve, this conversation offers valuable insights into creating fitness spaces that truly serve diverse needs. Subscribe to hear more as we continue documenting this journey!

@crossfitbison @crossfittraining @crossfit @crossfitgames #crossfit #sports #exercise #health #movement #crossfitcoach #agoq #clean #fitness #ItAllStartsHere #CrossFitOpen #CrossFit #CrossFitCommunity @CrossFitAffiliates #supportyourlocalbox #crossfitaffiliate #personalizedfitness

S06E193 The First Month of Outlast: Conversations, Questions, and Connections

TRANSCRIPT

David SyvertsenHost

00:05

Hey everybody, welcome to the Herd Fit Podcast with Dr Sam Rhee and myself, coach David Syverson. This podcast is aimed at helping anyone and everyone looking to enhance their healthy lifestyle through fitness, nutrition and, most importantly, mindset. All right, welcome back to the Herd Fit Podcast. I am Coach David Syrfson. I'm here with my co-host, dr and Coach Sam Rhee, and we are just a few weeks into, I guess by the time this airs. We're about a month into Outlast Fitness opening here at 265 Greenwood, right in front of CrossFit Bison, and we wanted to get an episode out towards the beginning of Outlast to talk about what it's been like over this first month and all these conversations and musings about Outlast, what it is, who it's for.

00:52

I've had some of the best conversations with members both from Bison and new members to Outlast and our coaches, sam, the owners, because this was an idea for a long time and now we're in it. We are back into the fire. So I want to spend some time talking about these conversations and I'm not really going to throw names around just in, you know, irrespective privacy and all that, but I do good and bad questions that have come up multiple times. I think it's really important for us to talk about them, because when you have six people asking the same question, that means more. Have that same question Agreed the same question, that means more, had that same question agreed. So before we get into that, I kind of want to give a shout out to you know, ownership here and really, like I want to talk about the idea and vision is one thing, but to execute it is a whole different thing. And we've asked, we've had a lot of people that have been at cross at bison over the past few years since we've moved over here, and they came back and they look back at here and like wow, this used to be like the locker rooms, this was the back area that no one really used storage and closets.

01:52

And I want to give a shout out to one of our uh partners, mike Da Silva. Yeah, for you know he has the that kind of that eye for design and ideas and concepts and when he first said we should create a gym in the front of this building, I was like it's too small, it's not going to work, we need more storage for our equipment at CrossFit. And I really think he kind of spearheaded this whole thing. So I want to touch on that a little bit, just like that whole process of what it was like to the construction, the demo, how fast things happen and how beautiful it looks in here. Now, when you walk in here, can you believe this was our locker room for a long time?

Sam RheeCo-host

02:28

No, as I've said multiple times, I can't. I could not have envisioned it prior to. We did a lot of stuff that uh made like the design has worked out so nicely, but I couldn't. I couldn't visualize it beforehand and it took someone like well, first of all, shout out to you for implementing the idea. Shout out to Tim Carroll, because imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, absolutely. And stealing that idea from him, implementing it for us, like that was your vision to do that. And then D who this is his profession, like he has a lot of job hats, but one of them is, you know his business Harding Design and those guys. He has a lot of experience with contracting, with renos, with remodeling, and I can't imagine if we had to use your standard regular contractor like how much longer, how much slower, how much more expensive it would have taken.

David SyvertsenHost

03:24

Yeah, it really was a quick process and I very much want to give him credit. And I'll tell you what he was actually he primed the walls, he was putting the outlets in. He was on his hands and knees doing a lot of dirty grunt work as well, for days or hours and hours. I just want to give that it's attention that it deserves, because here we are, we're going to dive into the fun stuff and that's what everyone else sees the classes, the programming, the coaching but none of that happens without all that backend work. And now you're starting to take over the grow and the website. Like that's going to bring us to a higher level, like I think it's really important for people to know that the stuff that you see is just the tip of the iceberg, and that's like the fun, the fancy, the sexy stuff, and I'm loving just the cohesion that we've had over the past month or two.

04:11

And there's always bumps in the road and things like even just fears and anxieties of starting something from scratch that I still have, still waking up and like is this gonna work? Is this gonna work? But it does take a team of people to do something like this, and I think that is that's why I'm really confident that this is going to work, and it is working. Um, now, we've been asked several times how it's going. Sam, how do you think it's going so far? It's only been a few weeks. We still have a ways to go, but how is it going so far?

Sam RheeCo-host

04:42

I mean I've taken four or five classes and I've talked to the coaches, I've gone through the whole process and I have to say it's, and I've talked to others and I have to say, out of a 10, it's probably executed at a. I mean not to pat ourselves on the back, but it's really like a nine, like maybe nine plus, like there are very few hitches that I have encountered, either as an athlete taking a class or watching the coaches coaching, or the implementation, the execution, the systems. It's been very, very smooth. There have been very few glitches. You know the programming very smooth, there have been very few glitches. The programming I can't. I mean, if you had to ask me where to and I'm sure we might talk about where to improve it, there's always room for improvement but in terms of the first couple of weeks of execution, I want to pat ourselves on the back. I think it did incredibly well.

David SyvertsenHost

05:41

No, I think there's a mix. Like my son yesterday came in first place in this obstacle course and then he came in second in the bell test. He's pissed off at that's about the second place and all that, which is funny to me, but it's I bring that up because it's the same thing with kids and us. Like there should be moments where you're proud. You know you can't get content, you can't let pride and being proud of yourself leave to. Oh, we can settle now, Like we're not even close to where we need to be and find it everywhere, Like, but there's a lot of money that needs to be made, there's people that need to get in here for the first time, we need to train coaches and you know everything is proven over time. You don't prove much over the first few weeks but, with that said, I could not be happier with the first three, four weeks of Outlast and blending it into bison and going vice versa and it just. It stems from one thing, Honestly it's not the workouts, it's not the coaching, it's not the facility, it's the conversations. The conversations that we're having are probably more beneficial to us, both short-term and long-term, than any element that can happen in two, three weeks because we've been in business a long time and I think that's something that needs to be taken into account. That part of the reason why it's going well early on is we made a lot of mistakes over the first gym. You know like I can I can come up with. We should probably do an episode on mistakes we I have made in the first five years that you are not going to repeat again. It's okay to make mistakes. It's not okay to keep on repeating them and I think that's where that's part of the reason why we are happy with what's been going on over the first few weeks here. So I wanna kind of get into some of these discussions because I don't want this to be. What do Sam and Dave think about Outlast? I wanna share what we're getting from other people in regard to Outlast. And again, there's good and bad in this and I'm gonna touch on both. To outlast, and again, there's good and bad in this and I'm going to touch on both and, like I said earlier, I'm not going to say okay. So this person said that. Like I'm not going to go into that because I never want. I always ask for feedback and I know you do too. I want there to always be trust and respect from us, saying that we won't repeat your name on a podcast that other people listen to, because we want honest feedback. And I think some people are afraid to give honest feedback because they don't want to turn into a gossip fest. They don't want to have their name thrown out. So I'm just going to throw in some good and bad and we'll talk about these and say what we think about them and even constructive criticism. It doesn't always need to be oh yep, we need to change that because so-and-so said this. No, put it into the bank, see if it repeats itself, trends and give feedback.

08:09

We had someone join us from another gym and part of her conversation here was talking about other gyms and where they struggled and why she came here, why she wanted to change in an industry where everyone wants change at some point. People like to switch things up when it comes to fitness and I told her I was like switch things up when it comes to fitness. And I told her I was like sometimes you can get frustrated as a member when you voice frustration about something right, but you never really as a member, you never really quite know the whole picture. So you have to always understand that because you don't like X, Y, Z, it doesn't mean it's going to change. Let's talk about something as basic as schedule. Right, we can about that.

08:44

On the first uh, frequently asked question, our schedule right now at outlast is 5, 36, 30, 9, 15 am, and then 12, 35, 30 pm. Only five classes a day. And then you have saturday classes. We are adding um, we're adding at night, we might add in the morning at some point. We're going to be really careful with that.

09:00

But we've had someone say like oh, I need, I need this time. I'm like, oh, it makes you panic, almost Like this person's going to leave if we don't open up this time. So you add the class and then that person ends up not being a part of the picture a year from now. Now you're stuck with the class, you're paying someone and you're just adding to the plate. So that's an example, Like if you're one person that's asking for that, it's probably not going to happen. So that's what I mean by when you give constructive feedback. It doesn't always lead to a result, but a good management team does listen and kind of put it into the bank. Now, where do you think a gym like this needs to do. Schedule wise, let's keep it off like really simple before we dive into the weeds.

Sam RheeCo-host

09:41

I mean historically, bryson has had more hours than any other gym in the nation I would say CrossFit gym. So we're no stranger to covering comprehensively the schedule during the day Right, and I don't. And, as you said, we're expanding the hours for Outlast. It is very smart and prudent to try to start with a relatively limited but full range of hours and then see where the demand is and you should tell us what classes you do want, because if you and 10 other people say that, then yes, that class will probably be added, absolutely. If it's just one person, okay. Now we have to still allocate our resources to make it most efficient, but I think right now what it's 5.30? I like.

10:33

Well, first of all, we had to schedule it a half hour after the Bison classes just so that there's a little bit of better flow in the parking lot and whatnot. But those have actually worked out and I think the people who have there are a few who have come over from Bison to Outlast find that helpful in sense that like it's actually a half hour later, so they have a little bit more time, which is huge in the morning. Yeah and so, and I have found that helpful too. So I kind of like that half hour stagger. I think adding more is definitely in the cards in the future, just by looking at the numbers and servicing more members. But it was a very you put a lot of thought into the schedule to start and I think that that reflects by the number of people that have shown up, that have populated the classes and I think, like you said, evenings and other times are very soon to come, but I think it was a great range of classes to begin with.

David SyvertsenHost

11:33

Yeah, and to compare it to the early days of Bison, you know I've had someone say well, you had 10 classes a day at Bison when you started. And that's true, we had 10 classes a day and we had two members, you know, and and that was because this, that was like an all in make or break. You know, I'm not being paid per class back then. That was just like we're open. I hope people come.

Sam RheeCo-host

11:54

Yeah, you were just hanging out all day really waiting for people, like there was no reservation. It was just like are people going to show? Are they not going to show? Who knows?

David SyvertsenHost

12:02

And then it was usually one person, and I want to touch on that too because I like these classes are smaller than what we're used to at our gym at CrossFit Bison. Eight to 12 people usually, but I would say the average class here is three people and I think we don't want a lot of classes where there's one person. Economically it doesn't make sense, but that's not the only reason why you would make the decision. I think the people benefit from having at least one other person in class. You know you've had classes back early days at Bison where it's just you. It's not the worst thing in the world. Yes, it is.

Sam RheeCo-host

12:34

When Dave Syverton is watching every movement and counting all your reps and you're sweating it.

David SyvertsenHost

12:40

It's not so much fun. It's like an open workout every day with a judge. But I do think I'm a huge believer of energy in the room and that's why I do like bigger classes. I do like having you know, five, six, seven, eight people getting after it, because it does make you work harder and, honestly, it makes it more fun. It can make it less, dare I say, awkward, right when you guys can have some bounce ideas off each other and have some conversations. And that's why, like, we will add to the schedule as the membership grows and as our coaches. You know, we're training a couple of coaches right now and we don't want to rush that process as well.

13:12

But one thing I would say about Outlast, before I wrap this part of it up, is we don't have, like, limitless hours available. Back then we did I did right, no kid, no other job. It was hey, just spend 12 hours a day there. Chris would come in the middle of the day, get a little bit of a break, close the gym, open the gym every day and you're good to go. That's not an option right now and we're not going to pay people to do that either. So I think that's why we need hey, what's the schedule gonna be? Is this it? No, it's gonna be more than five classes a day guaranteed. I say at some point we'll probably have 40 to 50 classes a week here, in addition to the 60 that we have at Bison.

13:56

So here's a really big question I think we could do an entire episode on this is who is this program for? Who is this program for? Who is this gym for, who are these workouts for? Because I think there has been some confusion on the CrossFit side that this gym, this Outlast, is not for them. It can, definitely it can be for them, but it was not the main motivator of creating Outlast, it was, hey, I just want to give another option for crossfit bison athletes to work out at. I definitely have a huge part, a huge contingent of people from bison that are either transferring over or getting 10 packs, blah, blah, blah. But I want to kind of touch on who we're really aiming for. Like if I, if someone asks you, sam in, you ran into a group of parents in Ridgewood, like hey, like who? Who are you? Who are you approaching? You approaching who you attacking, who you trying to get to come to outlast? What is your answer?

Sam RheeCo-host

14:48

it's not crossfitters, and and that was one of the biggest concerns I've had and I feel my concerns a little bit allayed over the past couple weeks is that we're neglecting the other side crossfit, bison and the crossfit uh. Athletes are feeling somehow that this shiny new toy is just a cash grab, like okay, so now you have a membership at bison and now I'm supposed to pay more money to come over here and do this kind of programming in addition to what a what a ripoff, and and that is exactly the opposite of what this is intended to be Like. Trust me, I have gone on both sides and I know that if I stayed over on the CrossFit side every day that I wanted to work out, I would be just fine. There's nothing on this side that someone who is on the other side is missing out on per se. However, it does complement it in certain ways.

15:46

So one of the things about crossfit is that there's always a lot of intensity to it. Yeah, like, no matter what, like I, we could talk all I would love to talk about different workouts and and how they make you feel, and and and the intensity level if you are someone who has a really hard time dialing it down for yourself. You can't stop like and I just talk to people and they're like, like cj, for example, like he just came back, um, he was recuperating after a while and but he's learned. But he said it's really hard when you come into that because he's a very competitive, high, high level guy. Yes, and he's like when I'm sitting next to someone else in my lane it's just very hard to like dial it down.

16:37

However, he has learned how to dial it down. Really beat up, pulling a workout or two and dropping in at Outlast is not any worse than, say, going to physio or another complementary treatment for your fitness. It's not designed unless you choose it to be your main modality of fitness. I still feel CrossFit is the answer. It will be the answer for me If I had to come here every day. I could still make it work for my fitness, but it's not something that I would really enjoy as a whole. But I understand the people who do, but that's why it's not for CrossFitters. It's for people who don't necessarily want to do CrossFit but who want to be fit. I believe truly that those two philosophies can exist in terms of gaining fitness, both valid, both legitimate, absolutely.

David SyvertsenHost

17:31

Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, the one analogy I made and I'm going to sing from the mountaintop on this one is I only have one kid, so I can't relate this to my life. But in regard to feeling neglected, are we giving all of our attention and resources to Outlast and Bison's just kind of like, hey, we forgot about you? To me it's like having a second kid, or this is what having a second kid would be like. Don't you have a favorite usually?

Sam RheeCo-host

17:56

Yeah, I don't know. You tell me I don't know In your family who's the favorite kid out of your brothers?

David SyvertsenHost

18:00

Oh, my brothers You're going to have to ask my parents, but it's probably Aaron. But anyway, see, who was who ended up being the fourth one? So maybe we should have four gyms and then the fourth one will be the favorite. Yeah, okay.

18:18

But I do believe that when a new baby comes into this world, you have to give it so much attention that it's very common that the first kid at some point is going to feel neglected or feel jealous or like, hey, I used to get all this attention right. Like Brock is an only child and he's spoiled with attention from the two of us and grandparents. If we had another kid or not, okay, he would have a hard time, I know he would, because he would feel like he's not as loved as he is. He absolutely is, and we will prove that over time. I compare Outlast and Bison to that in that if anyone from Bison does feel like neglected and you know some of our coaches are coming over here Some of the new equipment is over here, the air runners, right, it's cleaner over here because there's no chalk.

19:00

Smaller classes, it's not like 20 people at a time, more attention, all this stuff. It's very natural for people to feel that way and I don't blame anyone for feeling that way, but in time I think these things start to even out a little bit. It's just like when something gets off the ground, you have to give it a lot of attention. I mean, some of these morning, midday, night trips to the gym brings me back to the early days of bison, where you're going back four times in a day and you have to Well.

Sam RheeCo-host

19:26

you were supervising all the coaching. At first you had to spend a lot of time making sure that standards were to quality.

David SyvertsenHost

19:32

Exactly and making sure the gym's set up the next day and all this stuff and just getting feedback from everyone. But at some point I think that's where you have to kind of trust us. People from Bison need to trust us that we still consider Bison kind of like the mothership and this is our new project that we're really excited about. And as the business grows, you have a lot of people like Liz stepping up at Bison with the staff and all the scheduling needs there. You have other coaches Chris in the starting, keith and Tara Bobby coming on as like all these resources are being put into Bison. But it might not always seem like it's that way because it's a new shiny toy, like you said, and people I do.

20:13

I feel bad for some people that I don't want this to cause stress for, like, what should I do? Should I do this one? Should I do that one? I always circle back to crossfit is the way it is. The methodology even our programming here is crossfit methodology but it's not the full bore program. But I also want to talk about who is this for in regard to the outside. Let's not always talk about the crossfitters, because we're hearing more and more and I'm seeing more and more interest from emails, social media and conversations. Susan just told me a story that they're at a random baseball game or baseball practice and there's a few moms talking like have you heard about this new gym out last? I don't even know who they are. I don't know who they know here.

20:52

Word is getting out about this gym and I think the draw to it from the outside is that everyone is starting to realize you need to lift weights as you, as you're aging correct. It needs to be part of your fitness regimen. You can't just go do cardio strength training and they, and not a lot of gyms are doing that. Now. I mean, I don't want to throw any franchise uh gyms under the bus, but you boot camps are just very get your heart rate up, breathe heavy, go hard, get on a treadmill, go on a rower, do burpees, do pushups, but you're not lifting. And I think here you lift a lot of heavy weights at this gym every single week and I think there's just it's a very unique blend of programming that is just simply not out there. So if you're out there and you're saying, hey, I'm a little intimidated by barbells and the pull-up bar, but I know I need to lift. This is the place for you, right.

Sam RheeCo-host

21:40

No barbell, no pull-up bars. You are using dumbbells, kettlebells, but the great thing is is that you're not doing it at a recommended weight that you're supposed to use. It's for your capability. For your capability and I took a class where we were doing overhead dumbbell walks and someone was using a 15-pound and someone was using like a 70-pound and no one feels intimidated by that. So that is the difference that I feel like. You're right.

22:12

Someone out there who's looking at and I'll name names an Orange Theory or an F45 or an AlphaFit. They are starting to try to incorporate strength training because they know that this is the way. But guess who did it first? Crossfit. Guess who knows how to program strength training properly? Crossfit. So this is not CrossFit, but just having that programming background and knowing that we've been doing strength training for 10 years plus, like I dare say, these people are out there and they're gym shopping and they're going to try a class here. Maybe they'll try a class there. They're going to see what that programming is like and I think that that's the secret sauce that's going to help us attract people, because they'll know like there's a difference.

David SyvertsenHost

22:59

Yeah, absolutely. And do you think this can be from the outside? I've heard this from people coming in a lot. I'm intimidated by what you guys do over there, or I have zero interest in going over there, but I've also had this a few times. I want to eventually go work out at Bison. I want to do CrossFit. Is this a good start for someone that it's in the back of their head that they want to try, but they don't want to show up yet and put that barbell on their back and do all the scaled pull-ups and go upside down? There's a huge number of people that don't want to do that or they're too afraid to try it. Do you think this is a good first step for that?

Sam RheeCo-host

23:43

It is, can it be? It could be, but it's not designed to be. Yes, this is not supposed to be some sort of induction program into the cult of CrossFit. It's not like oh, come over, and now we tricked you into drinking the Kool-Aid Class is canceled, you are going to actually transition to CrossFit Right.

23:55

No, no, no, no, no. And, and all the classes I've been here and attended, there has been little to no interaction or like leak or bleed through from the other side, and the people that have been here have been in the outlast environment and that's it's. It's very specific to that. Yeah, now, that being said, there is you can't help it there is some crossover. Some of the CrossFit athletes have come over here.

24:22

Uh, when you look at some of those athletes, you might talk to them about it. Uh, it's very close, in proximity, so you could see the gym every time you come back. You could peek through the window if you wanted to. You don't have to peek, but if you wanted to peek you could, and so that's totally fine. I think it's a very safe environment. But if you wanted to step out of that environment and try a little bit different, something like it's very, very easy. That being said, you can't just like flip back and forth Like it's a separate app. It's separate, like everything. So it really is like if you wanted to try bison and you were at outlast, it'd be like trying out a different gym right exactly now.

David SyvertsenHost

25:05

The other way around, because we have seen this a few times. I knew this would happen and this, I'll be honest with you, was part of our thought that people that get burned out by crossfit for whatever it could be could be physical, mental, emotional, in the midst of the three, but they still want to be kind of a part of the crew or they still want to be a part of this kind of overarching, like programming, the coaching, the relationships that we have with them. We've seen CrossFitters come over here, like to the point. Yes, to answer people's question, I've gotten this a lot have people canceled Bison and come over to Outlast? The answer is yes. I'm not going to say who or how many, but that has happened. They want to work out here more than they want to work out there, and everyone is that is not, I can't handle CrossFit anymore. It's hey, I want to change, and that can go in so many different directions and maybe at some point we can get some of those people to come on, because I think that would be a really interesting conversation to have. But I do believe you're going to see that, especially in this first year, that hey, I need a break from CrossFit, but I don't want to go work out by myself at a globo gym or go do some sort of boot camp where I don't get strong or I don't focus on quality movement.

26:09

That is a huge part, a huge group, a huge number, huge percentage of the people that we have right now. And I actually want to say thank you to Bison members because we gave everyone a free class and having them come those first two, three weeks actually really did help us a lot. Like I know they got a workout in, but it helped us have people in here for flow, for feedback, but also just adding some vibe and energy to a class, because we have, you know, can never overstate how good of a group of people we have at Bison. It's just a very solid group of people. When you have solid people in a gym like Outlast and there's some new people and they're afraid to kind of step in, a little insecure, a little quiet, it does improve the energy in the room and, again, energy in the room is crucial. So do you forecast and this is hard to forecast, but do you forecast a lot of people fully transitioning over to an Outlast style training from CrossFit and what do you think about that?

Sam RheeCo-host

27:04

Uh, there will be some. Uh. For example, susan's sister, julie, has transitioned over. She uh had been at Bison for a couple years. Now she's quit that membership, she's joined Outlast and it's really a personality source slash, mindset view. Like Susan would never be a full-time Outlast member. She really her mindset is very much on the CrossFit side, julie.

27:32

You know it's really about intensity and personality match. Like, if you really want to push yourself in a very intense fashion, then CrossFit is really going to be the way to go, especially biceps, yeah, like there are certain workouts where you have to really push for, you know, 15 seconds, 30 seconds, whatever. You're not ever doing that in Outlast. You might push intensity, but for a minute 40. And who's going to sit there at peak intensity for a minute 40 because you will literally die. So you have to find this kind of like mediumish, like yeah, kind of intensity that you can maintain for a longer period of time, but that does not give you that adrenaline rush that CrossFit does. Now, listen, we all have different personalities, absolutely, and Julie is a nice flow sort of person, you know, like calm, zen, like you know, very soothing, like that's sort of the way you know her mind works. Susan's go, go, go Like let's get this stuff done, yeah, and so? Is it wrong to have any one of those two personalities? Absolutely not, and honestly I bet you in a couple months maybe Julie might drop in on the other side because she does personal training with Brian.

28:52

Dicarlo Made tremendous progress on the CrossFit side, and vice versa. Susan has dropped in a couple of times here too, so, but I don't think there are going to be so many people. There are certain people at Bison that will find the intensity level here, the difference, to be more their suit and they will do it. But I would say the majority, or the vast majority of us who have been crossfitting for any amount of time will stick with it, and I think that that's great.

29:22

I think every class I've been in so far has been a mix of brand new people from outside, a couple of people who were from the other side, and that mix has been super stimulating. It's really interesting to see new people who have no CrossFit experience come in and do these workouts, and some of them have crushed them in ways that I was like, wow, how were you able to maintain that intensity for a minute 40? It's because they're used to sort of doing that, and then some of them just found it brand new and that weight training and strength training was something that was a challenge for them. So, yeah, I don't see it being a problem on the CrossFit side.

David SyvertsenHost

30:02

Yeah, and so now I kind of want to dive into some of like because you brought up something with in regard to the word personal training because I actually had my fifth grade football coach. My first ever football coach came in he's our member here and he said he goes one of the things he said after our class he goes. It kind of feels like. It's kind of like personal training. You know there's four of us, five of us, you know, so you don't get your only one-on-one coach, but sometimes personal training can get a little like kind of boring if it's just two of you. So, yeah, for the people you're going after it, the coach gets to bounce around a little bit and the challenges of coaching in this environment are very different than at Bison, especially if I'm used to the mornings right, the bigger classes right, and that I want to touch on some of the challenges that a coach can have here that they wouldn't have at Bison and we're not really mixing and matching the two yet. I do think we could touch on that later with, like, what is the utopian view of blending outlast and bison together? But I've coached at both. Coach mike, who's doing our mornings here at outlast and he's crushing it so far. Uh, he's doing a great job, just kind of building the vibe, building the culture in the morning, uh. But what is it like? And him and I have talked a few times about what it's like coaching and we both feel this way.

31:19

It brings you back to really trying to work on someone's quality of movement, and not that we don't do that at Bison, but I will say it's harder to do that at Bison when there's 26 people. Some of them are 180 feet away from you. You know, some of them are 180 feet away from you as opposed to in here, everything is clock based. There's no RX weights, there's just less people and the gym is smaller, so it's easier to really keep a close eye on people. That kind of blend of coaching is a different skill set and I'm not even going to say it's better or worse. Like you just have to be better at assessing movement and explaining things without overdoing it.

31:58

Where at Bison you have to be, you have to keep track of so many different things at once, like including names on the board and the zones and the pull-up bar heights, like you know it's, it's challenging sometimes. Like you have to do 11 things in seven minutes when you're coaching that many people and that is its own skillset, its own skill set. But here it's a little bit more like individualized to actually coaching an athlete through movement. So at some point, sam you'll, you're still coaching on the bison side. You're doing Thursdays and Saturdays. You're going to be coaching classes here at some point I know you are. Have you thought about that at all? In just macro level, big picture.

Sam RheeCo-host

32:31

Yeah, you can actually. And first of all, I think Mike Delatorre is crushing it in the morning, absolutely. I've taken a bunch of his classes and he's done such a great job, which is kind of funny because he is a great CrossFit coach. If you had someone learning how to do a clean, mike would be among the best in terms of getting them set up and getting them to learn something. That technical setup and getting them to learn something that technical.

32:58

None of the movements here on this side are as technical as, say, a barbell snatch or a clean or a pull-up, but somehow he's actually done a really good job taking those skills that are very different and translating them over onto this side. I think a lot of it is, like you said, a smaller number of athletes, so you can sort of hone in on them, you can connect a little bit better, you can just create a better vibe. I think the intensity level is different. So you don't have and the risk honestly, let's face it, yeah, like there's less risk on this side than there is on that side.

David SyvertsenHost

33:31

I think that's a huge part of what people like about it.

Sam RheeCo-host

33:33

Yeah, when you're seeing someone back squat, like and they haven't backed squat a lot and they're biting off more than they can chew, like, you're just like, no, yeah, more personal feel you do have to manage a smaller group, which is a different skill set, Like it's just as hard to really connect sometimes to three or four people as it is to 20.

David SyvertsenHost

34:01

It is in some ways, harder. In some ways, yeah, for me, like I love having big classes and energy and getting after it. Yeah.

Sam RheeCo-host

34:09

And they feed upon each other too. That kind of like does your job for you. Yeah, I was about to say like when you have that many people, it's on a Saturday. They're feeding off of each other. You just kind of let you roll the ball out and they're off.

David SyvertsenHost

34:19

And when you coach a small group, there might be people showing up. You don't have anything in common with any of them and you have to find, like I told our two interns right now, julie and Matt, I was like you have to like really put thought, like they're like here's my warmup for this workout, here's how I'm going to demo. I'm like cool, how are you going to connect with people? And I just had a conversation with someone last night. It was like the best coaches can walk around the room and tell me five things about that person that have nothing to do with fitness. What do they do? Where do they live, how many kids they have, where'd they go on vacation last week? You know, what are they struggling with right now? And then eventually you have common ground. You don't need to be best friends, you don't need to even be the same person or have similar political views. It could just be like hey, I can connect and find common ground and have a conversation, because that is where people kind of let their guard down and they can leave themselves vulnerable at the gym. And I think that's really important. Very.

35:09

In regards to programming, okay, I've been asked a few times how are you programming both? Like Harry Adam Storms is like how are you programming for both? And like and I have made a rule for myself I can't program on the same day for both gyms, like that. So I have made that I do one on Wednesday, one on Friday and that has helped me out a lot. But part of this challenges of programming beyond the obvious, it's just you know Rx and scale. Yeah, I'll tell you what it's at the whiteboard.

35:37

When I talk about the workouts to classes and my first week, our week zero, where we're doing the free trial week, I think almost every workout I was almost underselling CrossFit methodology, meaning guys, here's the workout, push up, sit up, air, squat but don't do the CrossFit stuff Like. You don't have to go as fast as you can here, don't be like a CrossFitter. I'm like wait, what am I saying? Stuff like you don't have to go as fast as you can here, don't be like a crossfitter. I'm like wait, what am I saying? It's like don't be like across. I am across, like and I believe in it, and I feel like I had to almost check myself. I'm like I can't talk out of both sides of my mouth and say I love and support cross and that's what I want to do, but then to these people, I'm going to trash it.

36:15

So I had to kind of recalibrate a how I talk about workouts, how I would deliver them, and b? Um when I'm programming them, to really give the opportunity for freedom of choice of hey, if you want to get after some of these we've had a couple days here that are harder than bison wads if you want them to be, if you want them to and they and that is that's a big part of any workout regimen like how heavy do you want to go and how fast you want to to go on the machines? I mean, you could always make anything harder, but I think it's really. The challenge of programming is when you have people in there that are literally just trying to get their blood moving. We have someone that hasn't been to a gym since 2019, be pre COVID and she's in a class with CrossFitters that came over that want to go after the hard CrossFit type workout Because it looks cool on paper.

37:00

So I think it's been a challenge to say, to tell these people you do need to lift heavy. I know we're not doing back squats and snatches over here, but you should be lifting heavy. There are workouts where we are telling you to go fast I'm not going to tell you how fast, but you should be going fast. There are days where you do push-ups to failure Like push-ups to failure, like we, we have to. I, we really do. This is why I bring. I come back to the crossfit methodology. There are a lot of parallels between the two programs. We just don't do all the movements that you find in bison, but in. At the end of the day, if adrian bosman was sitting here right now, a lot of what we're doing in outlast you would say that's crossfit. So one aspect of, yeah, one aspect of cross, but we are missing out on some components. So that's been an internal struggle of mine. It's like, hey, I am putting a CrossFit spin on some of these workouts.

Sam RheeCo-host

37:48

I would love to pick your brain about what aspects of CrossFit you're pulling and which ones you're kind of putting to the side, because they are all very CrossFit workouts. But it's not Nate like where you're doing two muscle ups and then like a bunch of heavy dumbbell snatches, yep, and you know, like the Going upside down and going upside down.

David SyvertsenHost

38:13

But I could take a workout like Nate and create an Outlast type workout.

Sam RheeCo-host

38:17

Yeah that's where it's very interesting and, again, that's where the difference is between a place like outlast is versus other places is. You're pulling some of these principles that we know work, but you have to shape them differently because the amount of intensity level you need to do two bar muscles or two ring muscle ups at a time is pretty high, right, and you gotta be Especially for 20 minutes, right, and you gotta be especially for 20 minutes.

38:40

Right, and you gotta be locked in, yes, but but for something like this. So so I would love to hear you like one episode would be great. It's like pull five CrossFit workouts. I'd be like how would you adapt this? That's great To Out. That would be fun, because I would like to hear what your thoughts are Like. What is the number one overall arching principle you have when you're designing an Outlast workout versus CrossFit?

David SyvertsenHost

39:07

Here's an example. I think the most energy we've had in Outlast so far was our first benchmark here.

Sam RheeCo-host

39:15

The 55s Yep At 55, Outlast 55. Which is very CrossFit-y.

David SyvertsenHost

39:19

Yeah, very CrossFit-y. At 55, outlast 55, which is very cross-fitting, yeah, very cross-fitting. The workout, just so you know, it's 55 cal row, 55 cal c2 bike, 55 cal ski, 55 cal run on a runner and 55 burpees.

Sam RheeCo-host

39:27

Now, how about the people who aren't as fit, because this is one where everyone's going to be finishing at different times? Yeah, which kind of is very cross, because you're looking and you're like, oh, they're done I'm still working and we had and we told them to lock their scores. How did that go.

David SyvertsenHost

39:43

Honestly great. Almost everyone did and the energy was there and people were proud of it People I know what I love. People were stressing about it, just like CrossFit. This is where the bison spin is coming into this. Now, we're not going to do this every day, but I am thinking that in a lot of this programming you should be trying to improve, you should be trying to push your body. You know we're not going to log scores. I'm not going to like draw out these long paces for every single machine, but I do want you to know how long does it take you to row 15 cows?

40:12

Because at some point, once this new shiny toy loses its shine and any, any fitness programs like this you have to have some personal accountability, that you are going to work hard. You can't just show up, and it's very easy to show up to a new gym and try hard because it's new, it's stimulating. This is why people struggle with consistency of fitness. It loses its lust after a while and I want to have something every now and then where people say like, hey, I'm working towards a specific while. And I want to have something every now and then where people say like, hey, I'm working towards a specific goal and it could be like I tell people you should be. We're progressing bench press and Bulgarian split squats. That's our strength right now. If you don't know what weight you used last week, it's fine to come in and just move through it, but you probably could get more out of it if you know what you did last week, I think that it reflects your personal philosophy.

Sam RheeCo-host

40:59

I've seen you as a coach. You hate it when people just dog a workout. It almost makes you feel angry, disrespectful, dude, you could have done more and you just dogged that, and the silent judgment is very strong and palpable. I've felt it personally and that is a mark of a great coach is that you want to pull more out of your athletes and you don't want to do it in a and on this side, you don't want to do it in a way, that's you know overbearing or you know negative, and so you're trying to make sure that they.

David SyvertsenHost

41:37

That's a very safe workout. Like we're not going to do a one rep max dumbbell overhead squat over here. Like we're not going for that kind of feel.

41:44

But knowing what your a time and like and you have to kind of interject that like that CrossFit methodology of like, there is some sort of like those butterflies are not a bad thing. You have to. It's like, and it's going to be fun to teach that to some of these new people and hopefully we'll get to celebrate a lot of victories. But I know there's going to be some losses there because I didn't improve or whatever, for whatever reason. But that's where I do think there's going to be more similarity. To wrap this up, okay, so my last thing I want to touch on is something that Susan just brought up, and I know this has come up a few times is are you mixing, matching these communities together? Is it one big community? Are they separate? And you know there's separate apps, there's going to be separate Facebook groups, all that stuff but something as simple as the holiday party that you and Susan throw every year at your house, which is always probably one of the pillars of our year that people look forward to. They get to see each other and meet each other, see each other outside the gym. I think a lot of relationships have been built there. I think a lot of relationships have been strengthened there, and it's something that feels like it's exclusive for bison, like it's like we do it different, right and not better. It's just like that's like it's ours, you know, like that, that part that you guys throw.

43:07

It's been pretty much almost a decade now, like minus the covid year, and I it's a really special thing and I, in my utopia, I I feel the blend of the two like it's one big community and like, hey, I just that's where I work out, that's where you work out. You know, it's like it's like a church where you know this people, this group of people. They go in the morning on sundays but there's churches that do a wednesday night service, like it's still one church, but no, they're not doing the same thing together at the same time, but it's still the same overarching thing. Am I, am I too utopian and thinking like that, or do? Is it better to keep it separate?

Sam RheeCo-host

43:39

uh, it could be that way, or it could be wait. Who are these guys like the family reunion? Oh, these are the cousins from your family, your father's side, who like, live over in missouri and like, oh, those guys, and so I'm not sure how that's going to work, I think.

David SyvertsenHost

43:56

I think that's a to be determined to be determined and, uh, you know, I, I, I don't think it's a make or break. I'm just really curious to see how that blends together, like if we start meshing some of the social stuff together, because I believe in the people more than more than anything and I think, as time passes, you start, you know, you start to realize, like their workouts it does, you don't need to have an opinion about it, like what they're doing, what you're not doing. You have to make this like a personal thing, stay in your lane and then just trust that us, the owners or the coaches, that we're doing things for different groups of people and we have found different routes to help them and, at the end of the day, that is the baseline of our business. All right, so that's it. That's been a fun little way to recap that.

44:40

The opening weeks of Outlast. We're really excited. We still have a lot of work to do, coaches to train, and again, you know we'll get some people on here from Outlast and maybe we'll get some people that have done both. I think it'd be a really fun thing to kind of just keep on touching back and forth, because I know there's a lot of questions when I have conversations with people, you can tell there's people chatting about it a little bit and I like to get out in front of them and be as open as possible so that gray area doesn't lead to any sort of anything negative. We can just stay in front of it and know that what we're doing is is we're helping people as a community and for the community. All right, thank you guys. We'll see you next week. Thank you everybody for taking the time out of your day to listen to the Herd Fit Podcast. Be on the lookout for next week's episode.